Surviving Bf109E-3 Condor Legion 6-88

Hi There All,

  Robert.5-2 – I posted an update on the forum in Aug 2023 regarding this project.

https://www.key.aero/forum/historic-aviation/condor-legionspanish-civil-war-me109

Geoff.

Is anyone still interested in this aircraft?  Its restoration is now nearly complete, and I am trying to help the owner finish it up and get the details just right.  This airplane is a very early Emil and seems to have been converted from a Dora at Erla.  As pointed out by Anonymous in post #5 above, the upper engine mounts are Dora-type that have had steel doubler plates riveted over them to reinforce them.  Likely this was done to compensate for the extra power and weight of the DB 601 engine vs. the Jumo engine originally installed on the Dora.  The extra weight of the DB 601 and three-bladed metal VDM prop also explains the heavy balance weights installed by the rear oleo.  I have examined the Condor Legion plane at the Deutsches Museum Munich (6-106) and confirmed that it has the same doubler plates and large balance weights as 6-88.  The upper engine mount doublers are visible in good photos and you can see them easily on modern photos of 6-106.  Looking at period photos of Condor Legion planes, you can see them on 6-89 and 6-117, but they are not visible in photos of 6-126 or later Condor planes I could find online.  This must mean they were only used on a small group of transitional aircraft, maybe just the Doras that were in production at Erla when they made the change to Emils.  As observed by Anonymous above, the radio data plate from 6-88 was also stamped Bf-109 D, further evidence of its transitional nature.

Does anyone else have any information about the Dora to Emil transition?

Rob

I (almost!) wouldn’t care if it was sprayed fluorescent pink as long as it was flying!

Wow, would be great if this was rebuilt in Condor markings!

I think it’s worth mentioning that there is an advert in ‘The other’ monthly saying that there is a Jumo 210D coming up for auction soon!

6-88 on lorry in Spain

The remains of Bf109E-1 6-88 on a lorry in Spain prior to returning to the UK C1983.

regards

Mark

Cheers Mark… I’ll add your original question there too just in case any of our membership can help.

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Bf109E 6-88

Peter

No problem with posting pics on LEMB

I also have two more in a word document showing the airframe on the lorry in Spain. Unfortunately I am on a Mac and cannot read it. Have sent to a PC to read and post.

regards

Mark

Mark, I’ve posted some info regarding your query over on the WIX board.

Regards,

Lynn

Oxcart – unfortunately my EuroLottery numbers have yet to come up![/QUOTE]
Shame!!-It would be great to see a ‘109 in the air again!

Bf109E 6-88

Andy

As an early E following on from the previous D model, I am sure there were airframes/compnents moving from the earlier model to the later. Have seen this on a Bf110 startd as a C and finishing as an E.

Same also with P40’s.

As for the weight – no idea. Will have a look. If an E-1 the wings are later and seem to have the holes for the cannons – E-3.

Hopefully might have a bit more info next week.

regards

Mark

Oxcart – unfortunately my EuroLottery numbers have yet to come up!

Long time no speak Mark, I trust all is well with you? 🙂

Many thanks for the link and the two recent images. Do you have any problems with my reproducing them over on the LEMB?

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Bf109 6-88

Peter

This was the site – loads of condor photos.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/473104/message/1210546722/Messerschmitt%2BBF-109.%2BPrimeros%2Bejemplares%2Ben%2BEspa%25F1a%2B%255BParte%2B1%255D&usg=__7QxzKACRrK6MD10g8fCB2RvXVlo=&h=418&w=740&sz=279&hl=en&start=47&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=6Ha7co9W-monOM:&tbnh=80&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3DCondor%2BLegion%2BBf109%26start%3D36%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26ndsp%3D18%26tbs%3Disch:1

Long link – perhaps cut and paste!

Messerschmitt BF-109. Primeros ejemplares en España [Parte 1]

Five parts in total.

regards

Mark

Mark,

Not got very much more to add, but I have two published sources which try and list the various Bf109’s in Spain. The most recent, “Condor, The Luftwaffe in Spain 1936-1939” by P.Laureau [Hikoki, 2000] has the following:

On page 110 of the same volume, there is a single photo of 6-88.

On flicking through the pages of “Jagdwaffe, The Spanish Civil War” by E.Mombeek, on page 172 there is different photo of 6-88 and the caption says that “Oblt Siebert Reents Bf109E coded 6-88 stands ready for action…“

One question back the other way, can you provide more details on the “Peter DuPont lists” you make mention of?

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Are you going to make him an offer, Mark??

My recall was that the engine pick-up points looked all wrong for a DB engine and I wondered if it had been a Jumo version? If you look at the top engine mounting joint you will see a strange steel strengthening plate on the outside of the fuselage. The cowling scoop, by the way, is not from this aeroplane. Similarly, the other odds and ends are not original to this airframe which comprises fuselage firewall backwards, wings and tail until. No engine, landing gear etc and a wholly stripped out cockpit.

Another oddity was (is) a large steel balance weight in the rear fuselage by the tail oleo. I had not previously seen anything like this on 109 E’s. It was getting on for fifteen years ago that I was familar with it, though, but I think the Bordfunkanlage plate showed it as a 109-D or earlier. That said, I have seen such a plate recovered from a 1940 Battle of Britain wreck marked 109-D even though it was an E airframe.

The 109E in the Deutsches Museum Munich is an ex-Spanish example, so contemporary(ish).

Mark

I am sure I have some pics from its time at Tangmere somewhere.

My recall is that, at some stage, the tailfin was stolen although later recovered by Robs Lamplough when it was offered for sale by the thief. He met the culprit in a motorway service area and the Police were waiting, tailfin was duly recovered and felon aprehended – although the fin had been paint-stripped by then.

The story I heard was that the 109 was seen on a chicken farm by a tourist on a bus, who duly came home and told Robs….who then bought it for the princely sum of £25.00 although the story does seem to vary. The other story was that it had been an aircraft flown by Molders, although have no idea as to the accuracy of that tale.

I am trying to establish when this E-3 was built (essumed to be end of 1938 or early 1939), who manufactured it and the W.Nr. Is it the oldest surviving Bf109?

I’d have thought the oldest survivor is Bf109B V10a D-IAKO, w/nr either 871 or 1010 (depending on source), dating from 1937.