Surviving RR Vulture Engines

I thought Manchesters were temporarily dispersed at Cranage to get them away from the Avro factory in case of bombing, and pending delivery of reliable Vultures from R-R?

Robert Kirby’s book suggests that Avro had one pair of semi-reliable engines that they installed in the next one off the line, it was flown over to Cranage, then the engines were roaded back to Woodford ready for the next delivery flight.

So, not much hope of finding Vulture remains there? I’d love to be proven wrong though!

Now, I could recount a tale about Wellington remains at Byley in the mid-60s but that’s for another thread (and I’ve probably bored people with it before)…

We tried having a bit of a root around the scrappers and farms in the Byley/Cranage area but found nothing Manchester related (or Wellington for that matter). I would imagine that we are not the first to try or last to think of it either, but if any Manchester Vulture bits were to turn up, surely it would be there?

You’re more of an engine expert Pete than I’ll ever be; I just wanted to get the correct information from the curator.

I know that some engine items have been on loan to NAM from RRHT, but I wasn’t sure about this one – IIRC the donation was made on the basis that RAF Winthorpe saw Manchesters briefly operating there; “That’ll be in the RAF Winthorpe book!”

I think I’m confusing that with the supercharger at 12 shop in Derby, which is also not crash recovered. I think very few non-crashed parts have ever turned up.

Pete

🙂 The id was correct Pete, but not quite there on the source.

I have just received the following update from the NAM curator:

“All we have of a Vulture is the front casting with reduction gear and mounted on it is a cut down prop. It was given to us by an ATC Squadron in early 1989. It is on display, mounted on a stand in the ‘Lancaster’ corner in Display Hangar 1.”

So it is an accessed item and before anyone asks, I don’t have a photograph, but if it helps I can get one.

I have been advised by a ‘lurker’ around these parts that Newark Air Museum has part of a Rolls-Royce Vulture engine, I will endeavour to identify where it came from.

You used to have a reduction gear with prop hub, I think it may be on loan from RRHT, not sure though.

Pete

Oh, and before anyone suggests it, by ‘unearthed’ I don’t mean removed from a secret underground bunker!

Cheers, Twin Otter.

I still live in the hope that a complete ‘development’ engine may be unearthed, but I know that’s extremely wishful thinking!

I have been advised by a ‘lurker’ around these parts that Newark Air Museum has part of a Rolls-Royce Vulture engine, I will endeavour to identify where it came from.

Sorry Cees – I’ve just looked properly and found out for myself!

The rafm have 3 as far as I am aware….I have seem 2 at Stafford and there is the 1 they have out on loan. They are all recoveries with a pair from the same Manchester but not sure about the third.

I seem to remember seeing an article (with a photo) in the Lincolnshire Echo which described the recovery of two Vulture engines and guess it would have been during the late Seventies or possibly early Eighties. Annoyingly, I don’t remember the location of the dig though, or anything else about it.

Cees – where is your museum please?

The rafm have 3 as far as I am aware….I have seem 2 at Stafford and there is the 1 they have out on loan. They are all recoveries with a pair from the same Manchester but not sure about the third.

Interesting; all Bristol engines use Farman design reduction-gears.

My memory is a bit hazy on this, but I think the design of the supercharger drives for RR was licensed from Farman. If that was the case maybe Bristol got their design from the same source.

A curious thing in this photograph…

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94246283@N02/15016802675/in/photostream/

…those gears, visible at the back of the engine, are presumably the (missing) supercharger drive-gears?

Well, the clutch-packs, they look exactly the same shape, and about the same size, as the clutch-packs from a Bristol Hercules engine (ironically, an example of which is next in line in that photograph)! Is it possible that a Rolls-Royce engine was using, or copying, a Bristol supercharger clutch-pack?

The Bristol supercharger clutch-packs are designed for a two-speed supercharger; did the Vulture have a two-speed supercharger? (Edit: yes.)

Our museum took delivery of a very complete Vulture engine a few weeks ago…

Ha! Yes, that one…

…I should have posted my reply instead of looking at the photograph of the Bristol Mercury…..or is it a Pegasus?

Direct link to the Flickr photograph:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/94246283@N02/14830160170/lightbox/

There is an excellent crash-recovered Vulture at Fort Veldhuis in the Netherlands:

http://forum.largescalemodeller.com/topic/2638-fort-veldhuis-museum-walkaround/

You’ll have to scroll down a bit for the photographs but there are lots of other good recovered engines on the site.

Our museum took delivery of a very complete Vulture engine a few weeks ago.
Cees

Yes, a contra-prop was certainly tested on a Hawker Tornado.

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Thanks Pete, I had forgotten about the Scottish one, but I believe you are correct in saying that it is from the B20 prototype. So it sounds as though there are a maximum of three that are ‘intact’. Some years ago I saw some evidence (at RR Derby, I think) that a least one Vulture was used to test a contra-prop and I was wondering if any else had heard of this or any other Vulture developments.