Surviving Sunbeam Aero-Engines.

JerryW, / Roger

Heres a new one for your list, and in my own backyard:

Aero Engine – Sunbeam-Coatalen Maori 1, Airship Engine, circa 1918 Reg. No: ST 017924 Summary:
The Sunbeam-Coatalen engine was made by the Sunbeam Motor Car Company Ltd in the United Kingdom. It is a V-12, liquid-cooled engine producing 273 horsepower and fitted with four Claudel Hobson carburettors. It was intended primarily for use in airships during the First World War but was used in many types of service aircraft.. This Type 1 example carries the serial no. 1-250-23. This example may be an Afridi engine coverted to Maori 1 configuration during production
Acquisition Information:
Loan & Subsequent Donation from Science Museum (London), 1929
Discipline: Technology
Dimensions: 987.8 mm (Height), 959.8 mm (Width), 1569.9 mm (Length)
Weight: 507 kg (Weight)

Hidden away in the stored collection of the Museum of Victoria in Melbourne Australia!

http://museumvictoria.museum/collections/items/407988/aero-engine-sunbeam-coatalen-maori-1-airship-engine-circa-1918

regards

Mark Pilkington

Hi jerry w.

Also have you been in touch with Alec Brew? – he wrote a book on Sunbeam aero engines and may well have details of preserved Arabs.

Roger Smith.

Alec is now on Facebook if you need contact details.

Sunbeam Maori in New Zealand – http://www.lummisauctions.co.nz/wings/index_sunbeam.htm

Whoops – should have looked at the list, first.

Thanks for the info, fellas but you are way behind the times!

The Sunbeam Vintage Race Car with Maori 2 engine was purchased by John Fitzpatrick of Melbourne last year.

Photo is of me with the car at Lancefield where the vehicle was being fitted with a set of mudguards.

This info is on the Table!!

Cheers, Jerry.

The engine was found in very poor condition “it had lain in a hedgerow for many years”. Mr McNair did an amazing job of rebuilding it to running condition.
The car contains a large number of original Sunbeam car parts, from various models. She sounded absolutely fantastic, when Mr McNair took me for a spin around his local area :D:D:D:p.

Bob T.

That car is pictured at Omaka .

Jerryw, you forgot this one off your list:

The car is a reproduction of a Sunbeam racer and was built in New Zealand by a chap called Wallace McNair, it’s powered by a Sunbeam Maori. I don’t know any details of its provenance or serial.

Extant Sunbeam Aero-Engines

Below is my latest update of the list; the Arab has been moved to GB and the serial number of the Dyak at Mascot, Sydney, AU has been read.

Mark,
I don’t think the BAPC are particularly happy that Cross & Cockade put the list on the ‘net so I think it very unlikely that that one will be updated. It was published (in book form) in 2003 and was, I think, a tremendous achievement. Engines do not command anywhere near the interest of airframes or bits of airframes, are much more likely to be hidden away/not-get-at-able, and can be difficult to identify.

It is my intention to send the list of Napier Lions in another thread to BAPC once it is reasonably complete – but that’s just one type of engine.

Roger Smith.

I have been advised by email that the Science Museum only holds one Sunbeam Engine, a Sunbeam Nubian 2, indicating the BAPC Engine List I linked and posted above may have significant errors.

I’m not connected to the BAPC but assume there are some members etc on the forum, it may be worth reviewing those entries and updating the document linked on the internet to avoid further confusion?

Regards

Mark Pilkington

Thanks Jerry, thats amazing possibly only one left?, glad to see the Arab has got as good home, cheers Darrell

Sunbeam Arab.

Sunbeam Arab out of a Bristol Fighter? belonged to the RSAC collection in Oshawa for 30 years plus, recently sold off, dont know who to.

The engine pictured here is now located in the RAF Museum at Hendon. It is believed to be the only surviving Arab.

Jerryw.

jerryw,

I have spoken to the curators at both Qantas Founders Museum and Australian Stockman’s hall of fame, both confirm there are no Sunbeam Dyak engines in either collection.

The suggestion of one existing at the Stockman’s hall of Fame came from this british website?

http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/planes/SunbeamEngines11.htm

I am assume now it has confused the presence of a Dyak 504K replica in Longreach, with the presence of an actual engine, (I believe the second Avro 504K replica may have been displayed at the Stockman’s Hall before the Qantas Founders Museum opened.)

The curator at Qantas Founders confirmed their example does not have a Dyak.

I have seen the Sydney example myself, it does have an engine within the cowl, and the adjacent signboard refers to an original Sunbeam Dyak being installed.

During the 1960′-1980’s Qantas had an original Avro 504K (A3-4) on loan from the Australian War Memorial, and fitted a Sunbeam Dyak in place of its own rotary, these two replica’s were built by Qantas when the AWM original was returned and restored to its original RAAF configuration, so I assume the Dyak was simply transfered into one of the Replicas’.

Qantas also has its historical collection on display at Mascot, with a Beardmore and RAF V8 on display, but no Dyak.

So it would seem the two already listed, the Mascot Qantas Dyak 504k Replica, and the Bull Creek museum are the only two Dyaks in Australia.

regards

Mark Pilkington

Thanks, Mark. I have checked the situation re the Longreach museum. Two Avro 504 replicas were built by the Qantas apprentices in the 1970’s. The one at Mascot Airport is believed to have a genuine Dyak engine installed but the one at Longreach has only a Beardmore crankcase in it to provide an attachment for the propeller.

Jerry.

Jerryw,

I cant confirm it, or vouch for the accuracy of the overall list in any case, but I had interpreted the “2” as suggesting there are two examples of the Arab engine at the Science Museum?

Arab – 200hp, 8L, w

2 Science Museum

Also I noticed now in reviewing the BAPC list that my cut and paste from the list left these two further entries off

Sikh – 800/900hp, 12-cyl

Science Museum

Sikh – 400/500hp, 6L

Science Museum

It would seem well worth confirming their holdings directly with the Science Museum.

In addition to the two Sunbeam Dyaks recorded in Australia, in your list

Dyak Mascot Airport, Sydney.(in Avro)

Dyak RAAF Museum, Bull Creek, WA.

I believe there is a third Dyak existing in Queensland in Longreach, originally on display with the Australian Stockman’s Hall of Fame, but now perhaps?? with the nearby Qantas Founders Museum, who also display another “Dyak” Avro 504k Replica, built at the same time as the one on display in the Qantas terminal at Mascot, although I am not sure that this second one has any engine fitted?

regards

Mark Pilkington

Surviving Sunbeam Aero-Engines

Thanks fellas! Some really interesting possibilities mentioned so far. Delighted to learn that at least one of the infamous “Arab” engines has survived.

Jerryw.

Hi jerry w.

I don’t know if you have been in contact with the IWM/Science/RAF Museums – I have found them very helpful listing Napier Lion engines. PM me if you want contact names.

Also have you been in touch with Alec Brew? – he wrote a book on Sunbeam aero engines and may well have details of preserved Arabs.

Roger Smith.

Jerryw

the BAPC have an engine list that appears to show a few different engines in England to your list, (particularly those held by the Science Museum?) and to be missing some of the automotive conversions you list?

http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:-IVwNsqBX_4J:www.crossandcockade.com/files/UK%2520ENGINES.doc+bapc+engines&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=au

SUNBEAM COATALEN

Arab – 200hp, 8L, w

2 Science Museum

Dyak – 100hp, 6L, w

Cossack – 300hp, 12-cyl

Science Museum

Gurkha – 1915, 240hp, 14.1lt, V12, w, 960lb

FAA Museum: Short S184 remains

Manitou – 1918, 370hp, 15.4lt, V12, g, 820lb

IMI-Marston Heritage Centre:

no.65665 (Imperial War Museum)

modified National Motor Museum, Beaulieu:

‘350hp Sunbeam’ first car to exceed

150mph

Maori – 1916, 155hp, 7.65lt, V8, w, g

II Imperial War Museum: no.2-320-116

Science Museum: no.8012

Maori – 275hp, V8, w

Science Museum: ex-airships R33/34

Matabele – 400hp, 18.2lt, V12, w, 1000lb

National Motor Museum, Beaulieu:

‘1000hp Sunbeam’ first car to exceed

200mph

regards

Mark Pilkington

Hi Jerryw and all,

this is my favourite era of aero engine’s, the early big horsepower unit’s, the Lumsden book has some incredible photo’s of these engine’s and their ” group’s of people” name’s.

Please post the list for us all.

Andy

Arab

I am sure I have seen a Sunbeam Arab in the Historic hangers at the RAF Museum.
Also I understand there are plans to return the Sunbeam Manatu (spelling?) from the Sunbeam 350HP at Beaulieu to running condition! Although a long term project I believe this will be the only running Sunbeam Aero engine in the Northern Hemisphere!!
It’s a very intresting engine having been designed as a bit of a hodgepodge of several other engines with a few new bits! It is also the sole survivor of this type only a couple ever being made and this one also being the first to get a car past 150MPH

Matt