B17 Swamp Ghost has been siezed by the PNG Government who now intend to legally investigate and pursue other recent recoveries
http://www.thenational.com.pg/091406/nation3.htm
PAC: Seize Swamp Ghost
By JULIA DAIA BORE
THE parliamentary Public Accounts Committee (PAC) yesterday told the National Museum and Art Gallery management that it had “no power” to sell the World War II aircraft – the B-17 E Flying Fortress dubbed the Swamp Ghost, or any war surplus materials to overseas buyers.
The PAC said the war relics remained the rightful property of the PNG Government and its people; and that it could only be sold following normal Public Finance (Management) Act and/or by the financial instructions promulgated thereon.
In saying this, the PAC yesterday ordered that the Swamp Ghost be immediately seized by the State and protected and preserved until a decision can be made as to its future.
“The State (of PNG) still owns the Swamp Ghost and no effective contract of sale, salvage, removal or export has been formed nor could the museum do so,” PAC acting chairman Malcolm Smith-Kela said.
“The museum cannot enter into contracts to bind the State. The museum is a corporation in its own right; but it is not an agent or representative of the State, particularly in respect to the sale, salvage, removal or export of State-owned property,” he said.
He said any purported contract between foreign buyers, the Military Aircraft Restoration Corporation (MARC) and the PNG National Museum and Art Gallery to remove the Swamp Ghost aircraft “was illegal, unenforceable and invalid”.
He told acting museum director Simon Puraituk that “as custodian of WWII aircraft, war surpluses and our artefacts, I’m dismayed that you have dealt in them in such a shabby way”.“The museum is looking after all these heritages, and what we are seeing right now is that the war relics and indigenous artefacts are being disposed of in a most dubious manner.
“The committee has very carefully considered a large number of documents placed before it in relation to the dealing and export of the Swamp Ghost.
“The committee is of the view that there has been a concerted attempt to illegally obtain State property by virtually any representation, promise or undertaking.”
http://www.postcourier.com.pg/20060914/thhome.htm
News
Thursday 14th September , 2006Swamp Ghost sale halted
THE Public Accounts Committee has disallowed the contract for the sale, salvage or export of the controversial Swamp Ghost aircraft. The PAC yesterday, in its interim findings, emphasised the Swamp Ghost is still the property of the State of Papua New Guinea and the National Museum and Arts Gallery is not an agent or a representative of the state to sell, salvage, remove or export state-owned property as the museum has no power to sell the Swamp Ghost or War Surplus material. The committee found the actions of the museum in selling the Swamp ghost as unlawful. The committee identified about 82 other aircraft or aircraft parts that have been exported from PNG. A large number of aircraft have been traced to private hands, museums and collectors and the committee found there has been an ongoing international trade in war surplus material illegally obtained and exported from PNG. The committee intends to refer transactions and salvagers and their agents or vendors who sell materials on the open market to the Royal Papua New Guinea Police Force, Foreign Police Forces and International Law Enforcement Agencies Some of those materials have been sold on the open market by salvagers The committee also found there were four major salvages that had been operating in the country with the assistance of the National Museum, although the museum had no power at all to action or permit salvage, removal or export of war surplus materials pursuant to the War Surplus Materials Act. The committee added that there were two and possibly three salvors operating in the country that have engaged in unlawful conduct while dealing with state property or selling it for their own profit.
Regards
Mark Pilkington
By: Edward - 2nd October 2007 at 19:04
New Article on the B-17E “Swamp Ghost”
The October 2007 issue of Smithsonian Magazine has an in depth article on the B-17E “Swamp Ghost.” It can be viewed at the magazine’s wesite and includes photos of the salvage.
“Swamp Ghosts: A journalist’s quest to learn more about his father’s death in New Guinea in 1942 leads him to another World War II casualty: a U.S. bomber that crashed there the same year”
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2007/october/swamp.php
Edward
By: QldSpitty - 13th October 2006 at 08:47
Have been thinking what will happen to all the bits that are coming into country via the scrap merchants.I would think this would muddy the waters a bit if you traced the parts back to the jungle.
By: JDK - 13th October 2006 at 05:57
Names seem to be mentioned here and there seem to be implications that all was not done according to the “book”.
Bear in mind that most of what is currently being said can best be viewed as ‘case for the prosecution’ and ‘case for the defence’, without the strictures of being in court. As has been pointed out before, the truth will lie somewhere between two camp’s positions.
As regarding legality, it’s also worth bearing in mind that other warbird deals done in the UK, Australia or USA could be challenged by a smart brief who’d be able to find enough ‘irregularity’ to build a case on, without too much difficulty. It doesn’t need an Enron type mentality to end up in trouble even with the most honest of intent. Throw in multi-national movement, different cultures, religions and thus laws, plus locals who operate ‘pragmatically’ as well as foreigners, you are guaranteed a soup.
As I’ve said before my (easy) prediction is that there’ll be some rich lawyers out of this, and it’s going to be bad for everyone else; including the PNG locals, politicians and the rest.
By: scion - 13th October 2006 at 05:46
http://www.thenational.com.pg/091406/nation2.htm
Names seem to be mentioned here and there seem to be implications that all was not done according to the “book”.
If there was any misdemeanor and answers are tendentious it could spell a lot of trouble.
By: Arabella-Cox - 10th October 2006 at 14:25
The jungle drums tell me that PNG agents are following up and making several enquiries relative to aircraft already exported, some of which may already be restored and flying. Intention of PNG is to issue writs etc in the various High Court’s of relevant countries and word is that the first of these “…may be issued imminently”. Seems they are serious…..Andy Saunders
By: mark_pilkington - 10th October 2006 at 13:30
Interesting findings from the PNG Swamp Ghost Inquiry
SALE AND EXPORT OF THE SWAMP GHOST
AIRCRAFT AND WAR SURPLUS MATERIALS
1. The Public Accounts Committee finds that the on all the evidence before it, the Contract between Aero Archaeology LLC and the PNG National Museum & Art Gallery is a Contract of Sale of a B17 aircraft known as the Swamp Ghost.
2. The effect of that contract is to pass title of the Swamp Ghost Aircraft to a foreign buyer. 100% of the State’s ownership of this aircraft wreck has been sold by the PNG National Museum & Art Gallery.
3. The Public Accounts Committee finds that the PNG National Museum & Art Gallery has no power to sell the swamp Ghost Aircraft, or deal with War Surplus Materials.
4. The PNG National Museum & Art Gallery cannot enter Contracts to bind the State. It is a Corporation in its own right but is not an agent of or representative of the State – particularly in respect of the sale, salvage, removal or export of State-owned property.
5. The State of Papua New Guinea still owns the Swamp Ghost and no effective Contract of Sale, salvage, removal or export has been formed nor could the Museum do so.
6. Any purported contract between MARC and the PNG National Museum & Art Gallery to purchase and remove the Swamp Ghost Aircraft was illegal, unenforceable and invalid.
7. We also find that a previous attempt to export the aircraft was refused by the Government of the day.
8. The assignment of that contract form MARC to Aero Archaeology LLC may or may not have been valid, but certainly the Museum had no power to approve the assignment.
9. The assignment of the benefit of the Contract from MARC to Aero Archaeology Limited has not affected in any way the position of the State of Papua New Guinea.
and lots more…….
http://www.theswampghost.com/news/pac/index.html
regards
Mark Pilkington
By: Arabella-Cox - 1st October 2006 at 20:39
Waiting…!!
All in good time Andy,but lets just say if you are a taxi driver or a TV user you have to produce a copy of your licence if asked to do so,I wonder how many ebay sellers could produce a copy of the licence if asked?
Perhaps someone who sells parts on ebay could post their view on the subject??
Nope…I looked. Didn’t see any obviously looted stuff on e-bay. Bet the PNG Government have their agents on it right now, though! Andy
By: QldSpitty - 29th September 2006 at 07:56
They search it here,they search it there…
Willdo mate!!!!If it,s made of metal,I,ll have a bash at it.. :diablo:
By: Arabella-Cox - 28th September 2006 at 13:44
Oh no…miscounted!
B@stard!!!!!!LoL.. 😀 We are just making the smaller, British, single engined version of the B17. :p
Oh no….miscounted! There’s a fourth one 😀 Whats this….a faded paper label on the floor of my garage…can just make out….Type 300…?? :diablo: Keep sharpening that flint axe oldspitty! Andy
By: Arabella-Cox - 28th September 2006 at 10:46
Garry. You miss the point! First, in many cases the items being sold are not being sold by the finder/licence holder. Second, what is there to say that the items being sold relate to that licence anyway? It would be impossible to prove and the licence bears no relation to the identification of specific recovered parts. If you are suggesting that people offering such items are so unscrupulous as to have “looted” them then presumably they will have no hesitation in offering phoney histories or licence copies!? Next, have you bought such an item and been refused a copy of said licence upon request? You say that if asked for sight of TV or driving licences they need to be produced then I suggest you ask specific vendors for sight of such licences if it concerns you so much. Your suggestion of “looting” from “unlincensed digs” is presumably made with some foundation, but you have yet to come up with the evidence or specific instances. It would be interesting if you could do so. However, I would venture to suggest that persons offering items on the internet from blatantly unlicenced “digs” would need to be pretty stupid. Indeed, terminally so. The whole point of my original posting related to ownership or title of recovered wrecks or wreck items. By all means, as you suggest, add to my list of restorers, collectors, warbird owners and museums the category of dealers as well. The principle of “ownership” is the same, whether a complete B-17 or a shoe box full of engine bits. Andy Saunders
By: Garry Owen - 28th September 2006 at 09:13
All in good time Andy,but lets just say if you are a taxi driver or a TV user you have to produce a copy of your licence if asked to do so,I wonder how many ebay sellers could produce a copy of the licence if asked?
Perhaps someone who sells parts on ebay could post their view on the subject??
By: QldSpitty - 28th September 2006 at 08:46
That,s why swampy is so rare.!!!
Almost nicer than the three stacked in my garage…yawn!
B@stard!!!!!!LoL.. 😀 We are just making the smaller, British, single engined version of the B17. :p
By: Arabella-Cox - 28th September 2006 at 08:42
Just thinkin….!
Pity Garry Owen never came back with more on that e-bay line…. :confused: It would be interesting to learn more. Andy
By: Arabella-Cox - 28th September 2006 at 08:28
How many did they fit in B 17’s?
:diablo: :diablo: Anyway….didn’t realise they fitted these to B-17’s…..maybe a “special” on Swamp Ghost??!!!!!!!! 😀 Seriously, it looks good though. Almost nicer than the three stacked in my garage…yawn! 😉 Good luck to you! Andy
By: QldSpitty - 28th September 2006 at 08:03
Hmmm
Take a number and wait in line old boy…The tribes women folk need some new knives to cut up some game the guys have caught..Honestly I really want to wait to see if the bloody thing fits first before I do any more.. 😮
By: Arabella-Cox - 27th September 2006 at 09:22
Blimey Old Spitty….impressive what you colonial sorts can fashion out of baked bean tins using little more than flint tools!! Seriously…very impressive! Can you make me one or two??! Andy Saunders
By: QldSpitty - 27th September 2006 at 08:36
Working under the palm trees
I very much hope that Australia soon manages to emerge from its third world status and is able to stand, shoulder to shoulder, with such giants on the international stage as PNG!
..Ok while I was having a break from making cooking utensils for the tribe and sharpening spearheads have been making this sort of stuff
😉 😀
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th September 2006 at 22:54
You would have to ask the sellers that question, Garry. Because they are not offering a copy of the licence does not mean the aircraft was recovered without a licence does it? If I came to your house to watch your TV it wouldn’t mean you didnt have a licence because you didnt show it to me and if you were a taxi driver and I went in your cab it wouldnt mean you didnt have a licence because you failed to give me a copy of your driving licence. You seem to be suggesting an awful lot of recoveries are unlicenced and I would hardly think that to be the case. If it is, then I suggest you take matters up with the appropriate authorities by presenting them with the evidence you apparently have. Andy Saunders
By: Garry Owen - 26th September 2006 at 21:27
I am interested to read your comments that suggested there are those who are “looting” wreck sites in the UK to sell items on e-bay. It would be interesting to hear more about that, Garry. Andy Saunders
Well,Andy,go to www.ebay.co.uk and search for “aircraft relics” or “crash relics” and you’ll see what I mean. If those parts being offered were removed during a licenced dig why do the sellers not include a copy of the licence? some of the parts offered will have been removed prior to 1986 but there have been numerous parts offered on ebay from un-licenced post 86 digs.
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th September 2006 at 10:09
Australia…an emerging nation!
Yes, absolutely right! Andy PS I very much hope that Australia soon manages to emerge from its third world status and is able to stand, shoulder to shoulder, with such giants on the international stage as PNG! :diablo:
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September 14, 2006 at 9:34 pm