Can anyone clear up an argument I am having with some mates?
German law outlaws the use of the swastika we agree on that but what we can’t agree on is to what degree it is banned.
Is it what they say a total ban where its deleted on everything including war time photos, war time papers, aircraft restorations etc etc?
or
on just reproducing it today which is what I thought it was?
:confused:
By: mike currill - 10th February 2004 at 06:01
How much truth there is in it I don’t know but I did hear a rumour many years ago that it actually originated with the North American Indians. Personally I think it was one of those things which happen occasionally in more than one country at the same time.
By: Arthur - 9th February 2004 at 10:12
Latvia used a red swastika too, from their involvement in the Russian civil war (just after independence) in 1918 to 1939 when the country was annexed by the Soviet Union. It was also diagonally like the German one but rotating the other way.
By: SF34 - 9th February 2004 at 09:59
Originally posted by EN830
Finland also used the Fylfot as it’s national symbol during the war.
True, but it is important to understand that the sign of the early Finnish Air Force has nothing to do with the Nazi Germany. The blue swastika was the symbol of good fortune used by the Swedish Count Eric von Rosen who during the Finnish Civil War presented to the Finnish White Army its first aircraft on March 6th, 1918. The swastika was painted on the upper side and under side of the wings of the Thulin Parasol he brought from Sweden. The sign was adopted by the Finnish Air Force to honor him.
By: JohnH - 15th September 2003 at 09:41
Both 109’s displayed by the Auto and Technik Museum at its’ Speyer and Sinsheim museums have swastikas. I was just at the one in Speyer July 6th, and four years ago was at the one in Sinsheim. I just checked the photo of the one in Sinsheim to be sure it has the symbol. Aviation wise,apparently the swastika ban is only on flying airplanes, not static displays in museums.
JH
By: Ant.H - 15th September 2003 at 00:19
Thanks Bob,interesting link,just what i was looking for 🙂
By: Bob - 14th September 2003 at 21:37
Originally posted by Ant Harrington
Just out of curiosity,how did the Swastika come to be the symbol of the Nazis?In both Middle and Far Eastern culture swastika-like symbols are good luck signs,with the Fylfot being a major symbol of Buddhism.Fylfots adorn the tops of many Buddhist temples in the same way that we have crucifixes on church spires.
An explanation can be found here
By: EN830 - 14th September 2003 at 19:18
Finland also used the Fylfot as it’s national symbol during the war.
By: Ant.H - 14th September 2003 at 17:56
“I have only ever seen one historc aircraft in Germany which has been restored to include a swastika and that it is a Halberstadt in Berlin which was restored to the configuration it had when used a civil aircraft in the 30ies, but somebody else may prove me wrong on this one.”
Hi Kenneth,
The Bf109E-3 which has recently gone on display at the Technikmuseum has been painted in full Luftwaffe markings,swastika included.She’s W-Nr 1407 ‘Red 5’ of 1/JG77, and was lost in 1941.She was restored in Hungary having been dragged up from the bottom of a lake in 1993.She’s suspended in the Technikmuseum’s new building in Berlin.
Just out of curiosity,how did the Swastika come to be the symbol of the Nazis?In both Middle and Far Eastern culture swastika-like symbols are good luck signs,with the Fylfot being a major symbol of Buddhism.Fylfots adorn the tops of many Buddhist temples in the same way that we have crucifixes on church spires.
By: Kenneth - 14th September 2003 at 13:54
The ban certainly doesn’t include wartime photos and documents, as there sufficient books, exhibitions and television programs around which show this symbol today. If a historic document is concerned I think it can remain; however there are number of official (text-type) documents around where great effort was invested in the post-war years to delete the swastika.
I have only ever seen one historc aircraft in Germany which has been restored to include a swastika and that it is a Halberstadt in Berlin which was restored to the configuration it had when used a civil aircraft in the 30ies, but somebody else may prove me wrong on this one.
Plastic model kits do not include them, swastika decals may also not be sold, and models with them are generally not accepted at exhibitions.
Hence, the correct answer lies somewhere between the two possibilities you indicated. Whether the ban is enforced or not is certainly also related to the context in which you use it and how you go about using it
By: RadarArchive - 14th September 2003 at 13:24
As far as I know, the swastika and any other totalitarian images are completely banned. Certainly, the swastika is ground off any Iron Crosses or Knights Crosses before they can be sold. I don’t think it is an offence to own anything with such images – ie wartime veterans can still keep their bits and pieces – but I think it is illegal to sell or trade anything with such depictions.
But I daresay someone better informed will be able to tell me I’m completely wrong!
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September 14, 2003 at 1:03 pm