Sweden interested in Denel's Umkhonto missile

There was nothing wrong with putting it into production, it’s just that it didn’t suit Sweden’s needs for the Visby class.

Unlike either the Mica VL or Umkhonto, the BAMSE is not a vertically-launched missile and therefore cannot be stored and fired from seamless below-deck launchers. It would have required an oblique launcher mounted externally, which would have compromised the Visby’s stealth profile and may have required a significant redesign. Using vertically-launched missiles is a lot easier.

The BAMSE is also a Command-to-Line-of-Sight (CLOS) missile, which means it requires constant guidance from the ship’s radar in order to score a hit. In practical terms, this means that you’re only able to launch missiles along specific axes (ie, where the radar is targeted at a given moment) and you’re limited both by the number of missiles you can launch simultaneously and the flight channels those can follow. In contrast, the Umkhonto is a fire-and-forget missile with full hemispheric protection, meaning that you can launch 8 of them in rapid succession and have them all target separate targets approaching from different directions. So it’s better against a saturation attack.

Finally, the Umkhonto-R, which Sweden is also hoping to bring into service, has greater range than the BAMSE.

The BAMSE itself is a fine missile, but it just wasn’t suited for this particular application. So far as I know, however, its adoption by other arms of the Swedish military continues unabated.

Given that Sea Wolf went from a non-vertical to a vertical launch system, I’ld assume it is not a problem that cannot be overcome.

Also CLOS guidance doesn’t necessarily require radar. A passive ElOp director would also do, and these can be much smaller than a radar director so that they are a) less of a signature problem and b) more can be employed thus partically solving the channels problem. Incidentally, the Israeli’s don’t seem to think that CLOS is much of a problem with their Barak missile, especially not when combined with a radar like Elta’s MF STAR.

BAMSE

“The BAMSE itself is a fine missile, but it just wasn’t suited for this particular application. So far as I know, however, its adoption by other arms of the Swedish military continues unabated.”

In September 2007, the Swedish Government cut funding for the BAMSE missile in the 2008 budget, putting the programme on hold.

Another thing to consider regarding putting the BAMSE on the Visby. It´s not a fire and forget weapon, when using it the ship will light up like a Christmas tree the entire time till the missile hits its target. It kind of ruins the whole idea of Visby being stealthy…

Regarding the South African off sets, this purchase can be a part of it. Essentially everything Sweden buys from South Africa can be counted on the off set account if they choose to. SAAB is owned by Investor, which is an investment company that holds shares in over 100 companies in Sweden and world wide. So if a Swede buys a bottle of South African red wine at the “Systembolag” in Sweden he may be a part of the off set deal. (just a little bit ironic, but you get the idea) 😀

Too bad for the BAMSE missile, I guess Sweden was not able to put it into production.

—–JT—–

There was nothing wrong with putting it into production, it’s just that it didn’t suit Sweden’s needs for the Visby class.

Unlike either the Mica VL or Umkhonto, the BAMSE is not a vertically-launched missile and therefore cannot be stored and fired from seamless below-deck launchers. It would have required an oblique launcher mounted externally, which would have compromised the Visby’s stealth profile and may have required a significant redesign. Using vertically-launched missiles is a lot easier.

The BAMSE is also a Command-to-Line-of-Sight (CLOS) missile, which means it requires constant guidance from the ship’s radar in order to score a hit. In practical terms, this means that you’re only able to launch missiles along specific axes (ie, where the radar is targeted at a given moment) and you’re limited both by the number of missiles you can launch simultaneously and the flight channels those can follow. In contrast, the Umkhonto is a fire-and-forget missile with full hemispheric protection, meaning that you can launch 8 of them in rapid succession and have them all target separate targets approaching from different directions. So it’s better against a saturation attack.

Finally, the Umkhonto-R, which Sweden is also hoping to bring into service, has greater range than the BAMSE.

The BAMSE itself is a fine missile, but it just wasn’t suited for this particular application. So far as I know, however, its adoption by other arms of the Swedish military continues unabated.

Too bad for the BAMSE missile, I guess Sweden was not able to put it into production.

—–JT—–

Indeed. And it is involved in other sectors of the SA defence industry as well, having purchased majority stakes in Avitronics, Grintek and Aerospace Monitoring and Systems (AMS) over the past few years.

Denel and SAAB have been pretty closely connected for a while now.

“Saab and Denel create new aerostructures company”
http://www.mg.co.za/article/2006-06-15-saab-and-denel-create-new-aerostructures-company

Buying the Umkhonto can satisfy Sweden’s offset obligations to SA for selling Gripen.

Are you sure of that? To my knowledge, the offset obligations are on the part of Saab itself (and those are almost all complete), so a purchase by the Swedish Navy does not count at all towards the offset obligations. Offsets are also defined as industrial investment in South Africa with an eye to improving capacity, so mere orders of military equipment do not suffice. I just don’t see how this decision has any effect on the offsets at all.

As for Denel Dynamics, it has been spun off as a more or less independent company from the parent group, with its own management team and finance structure. At the moment its future looks quite secure, more so than most of Denel’s other divisions.

That said, watch this space: I would not be surprised at all to see Saab Bofors Dynamics (or a similar firm) purchase a majority stake in Denel Dynamics within the next year or so. The offer has already been made. If this happens, it may put a new spin on the Umkhonto purchase by the Swedish Navy.

But that aside, the fact remains that the Umkhonto is a capable missile which outperforms the Mica VL on performance and was worth choosing on its merits alone. It’s certainly possible that that’s the reason it was chosen.

Taking into account, that the system will have to be operational for xx years, I wouldn’t be so sure that Kentron/Denel can deliver it over those xx years. Admit I’m a little fan of Mica, but seems to me it would be a more secure choice. And regarding performance – it’s a self-defense system, and Mica has enough range. There is no 4-shot simul limit. At least non that is supported by official publications. And why should it? Both missiles are fire-and-forget.

I was under the impression that Sweden’s offset obligations had been met completely before this interest. Perhaps it is just a good buy? I know Finland chose the IR Umkhonto on merit.

A brief survey of public info shows the Radar Umkhonto to have between 10% more range and 30% higher intercept altitude than the Mica VL. It can also fire towards and engage 8 targets simultaneously versus the 4 of the Mica. The Mica is in production though, and the radar version of the Umkhonto has apparently finished tests and is waiting to be productionised.

Buying the Umkhonto can satisfy Sweden’s offset obligations to SA for selling Gripen.

Right!

Wonder what Umkhonto can do that VL Mica can’t.

Buying the Umkhonto can satisfy Sweden’s offset obligations to SA for selling Gripen.

Wonder what Umkhonto can do that VL Mica can’t.