Swedish stealth subs !

Finland’s treaty restrictions on its armed forces were very rare indeed. Austria had similar restrictions, & Germany had severe restrictions after WW1. Not many other cases until the (now cancelled) CFE treaty between NATO & the Warsaw Pact, & that was much less restrictive. Sweden’s lack of restrictions were normal.

On the strength of the argument that all of the carriers of any NAVY wouldnt likely line up to be shot at simultaneously……can I take it your actual question is ‘Are the Swedish Navy’s SSK’s a genuinely potent force’?.

If thats the question then the answer is ‘within the limits of their performance….yes’.

With legacy blue-water oriented ASW sensors on the surface force, and poor tactical handling from the group ASWCS, SSK’s of many types would give a surface force a very unhappy time and the Swedish boats would definitely make that list. Thing is though that lesson became clear to many services over 30yrs ago when Argentine 209-type submarines presented the Royal Navy with an unassailable problem. 30 years is a long time to program a counter.

The excercises mentioned are set up at significant cost to give training to both sides….this must be remembered when reading any such article as that you link. If a SURTASS-LFA was present supporting the CSG or a number of escorts with LFA tails then the outcome would very likely be vastly different and the training value not shared out. Also there can be political goals to an exercise serial. Active tails were relatively late in reaching the USN…..a great way to have them moved up the funding priority queue is to have scope-shots of USN carriers from marauding ‘foreign’ submarines appear in the general media though!.

So, yes, they are dangerous if not taken seriously…..just like nearly any other threat system.

Yes you could say that. I was surprised the swedes had subs in the first place and they are our neighbours. I figure Finland was prohibited to have any kinda threathening army after WW II so subs were also a no go. Swedes being an old colonial superpower these restrictions never applied I suppose.

Could these actually sink all the carriers of any NAVY ?

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/sweden-has-a-sub-thats-so-deadly-the-us-navy-hired-it-t-1649695984

Swden is a supapower after all.

On the strength of the argument that all of the carriers of any NAVY wouldnt likely line up to be shot at simultaneously……can I take it your actual question is ‘Are the Swedish Navy’s SSK’s a genuinely potent force’?.

If thats the question then the answer is ‘within the limits of their performance….yes’.

With legacy blue-water oriented ASW sensors on the surface force, and poor tactical handling from the group ASWCS, SSK’s of many types would give a surface force a very unhappy time and the Swedish boats would definitely make that list. Thing is though that lesson became clear to many services over 30yrs ago when Argentine 209-type submarines presented the Royal Navy with an unassailable problem. 30 years is a long time to program a counter.

The excercises mentioned are set up at significant cost to give training to both sides….this must be remembered when reading any such article as that you link. If a SURTASS-LFA was present supporting the CSG or a number of escorts with LFA tails then the outcome would very likely be vastly different and the training value not shared out. Also there can be political goals to an exercise serial. Active tails were relatively late in reaching the USN…..a great way to have them moved up the funding priority queue is to have scope-shots of USN carriers from marauding ‘foreign’ submarines appear in the general media though!.

So, yes, they are dangerous if not taken seriously…..just like nearly any other threat system.

Could these actually sink all the carriers of any NAVY ?

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/sweden-has-a-sub-thats-so-deadly-the-us-navy-hired-it-t-1649695984

Swden is a supapower after all.

No, a modern SSK in the right place can indeed be a dangerous thing, but it has to be “in the right place”. Submerged, (using an AIP system) an SSK is SLOW, if they go into battery mode and make a dash, the range is small, they are (sometimes) called a “moving minefield” because of that. It cant go hunting a battle group that moves at 25/30 knots in the open ocean because it is slower, thats a job for the nuclear submarine.
Throw a Gotland, U214, Scorpene, whatever, into a confined space (Baltics, Adriatic, etc) or near a choke point (Gibraltar, Ormuz, etc) and when well used is a very dangerous thing, on the open ocean, well, it has some disadvantages.