Syria ( Again )

It is incredibly depressing that the human race allows this sort of thing to happen at all.

I watched some footage last night after the ban on Reporters was lifted,, after the latest bout of murder, and the bodies cleared away and buried. They couldn’t clear all the blood spattered walls and bullet holes up though, it was there for all to see.
I just can’t believe we humans can do such things to each other. Appaling.

Jim.

Lincoln .7

There clearly needs to be some intervention, but as said by someone else the situation isn’t black and white at the moment.

But the intervention should not some from us, or the USA. It should be down to the Arab League and neighbouring Mediterranean countries.

Russia and China only seem to be making the situation worse, which is to be expected given both of those countries reputations concerning Human Rights.

I think MSR777 might have a few valid points.

As I understand it, there is also some concern about sectarian tensions. A military intervention can stir things up even more, and the current government might benefit from that.

As #12 as sad as the pictures coming out of there are.

…………This Country just cannot afford to keep financing other folks problems.
This may seem harsh, but charity begins at home.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Totally agree, we cannot continue to be the conscience of the world, or the
bits that suit us anyway.

What is so wrong with that? The aggressive stance hasn’t really worked either has it?

Absolutely nothing.
Except it might prevent him from doing what needs to be done either to protect ths country’s national interest or in this case, protecting innocents.
For a guy who has had a very easy political life, I’m not sure he’s up to making hard decisions.

(BTW: I’m not sure if I’d charaterize the “West’s” stance towards the Islamic world as aggressive.
More responsive to events than aggressive. To use schoolyard terms, “They started it”).

Whilst I feel very sorry for the Syrian people, especialy their children who have to put up with bombs, bullets etc,24/7, I just hope, that if things go realy pear shaped and Obama offers his services WE don’t get dragged into yet another conflict. We have our own never ending conflict in Afghanistan, nothing will ever change there, even if our lads and lassies stay there for the next 50 yrs. Get our lads out now, we have done our bit.This Country just cannot afford to keep financing other folks problems.
This may seem harsh, but charity begins at home.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

This sad situation is so much more complex than the other ‘Arab Springs’ Personally, I don’t think that China or Russia will back any kind of armed intervention by the western countries, or anyone else for that matter. Russia has a lot of vested interest in the continuation of the Assad regime. It has it’s only ‘toehold’ in the Med, in the shape of the newly upgraded Naval base in the Syrian port of Tartous. In addition to that, factor in the extensive trade and other investments in the country, and it’s obvious they stand to lose a great deal should the regime collapse. IMO, China has less to lose in this situation, but then again they are quite heavily involved with Iran, but I think that their influence and economic clout in the region is still embryonic, by comparison to Russia and other regional powers. The Russians and the Chinese seem to me, to be ‘covering their own a***s, by paying lipservce to the need for a diplomatic solution, to the stalemate which now confronts all sides. I really don’t think that the latest strategy of the western, and some of the Arab states, of sending home Syrian diplomats will achieve very much, and I can’t believe that Assad is losing much sleep over it either. My personal opinion, is that as long as Assad has the support of Russia and China, then the Baathist regime will remain in power, although not necessarily with Assad at the helm. There are many dark hard liners waiting in the wings, composed of many, who were trained and indoctrinated in the era of his repressive father, Hafez Al-Assad. The great unknown factor, is what the Syrian military will do, should the fortunes of the regime deteriorate. I have no doubt, that the elite armed forces of the state security and intelligence ministry, will fight to the bitter end, the loyalty of the regular armed forces is a different matter, and I’m sure that the regime is very aware of that. It’s a real geopolitical nightmare. Just my take on this topic, but I feel that the threat of a major regional conflict, possibly involving the Israelis too, is very real indeed, and that should concern all of us.

As expected.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18260992#

This isn’t going to end well.

Obama doesn’t want to do anything…he’s too busy courting friendship with the Islamic world. I think he thinks if we’re nice to them, they’ll be nice to us.

What is so wrong with that? The aggressive stance hasn’t really worked either has it?

It’s very easy to lash out at the U.S., us, and any other democratic country you can think of, but the fact remains that any attempt to bring force to bear will be immediately vetoed by Russia (certainly,) and China (probably.) In the so-called diplomatic world, children’s lives come a poor second to the chance of making a profit.

I for one wouldn’t put all this on Obama’s shoulders. He might be acting wisely, for all I know. I can’t read his mind, but I doubt he is OK with the situation.

He may be.
But for a guy who talks a great deal about human rights issues, he seems very reluctant to do much..in Libya, or even giving moral support to the demonstrations in Iran, etc.

Obama doesn’t want to do anything…he’s too busy courting friendship with the Islamic world. I think he thinks if we’re nice to them, they’ll be nice to us.

I don’t really know much about it, but I’m not sure the “us and them” approach is reasonable. The Islamic part of the world doesn’t exactly speak with one voice about everything, as far as I know.

Perhaps the situation in Syria may in some ways warrant an international military intervention, but it might seem that the conditions for it are questionable. What about possible involvement by al-Qaeda and/or other extremist groups? The threat picture? The cost/benefit outlook for intervening powers? Regional consequences?

I for one wouldn’t put all this on Obama’s shoulders. He might be acting wisely, for all I know. I can’t read his mind, but I doubt he is OK with the situation.

Obama doesn’t want to do anything…he’s too busy courting friendship with the Islamic world. I think he thinks if we’re nice to them, they’ll be nice to us. He out to ask Jimmy Carter how that worked out.:D

How many UK/NATO lives is it worth to help the Syrian people get rid of a regime that they’ve put up with for the last 50+ years?

Sorry to be cynical, but it’s getting old.

As Alan says, what would the UN do? The West has had its fingers burned in Middle East before and continues to do so and as many have said we should be pulling out of Afghanistan. Do we really want to get involved in another conflict of indeterminate length? The recent pictures from Syria are truly heartbreaking but the only solution would appear to be a military one. Is that what we want?
We saw similar pictures of children from Halubja in Iraq and look where we ended up with that one.
We, as part of the human race, have a duty to protect thos vulnerable sections of societies which are being repressed but our ability to carry out our duty is tainted with a history of poorly planned and executed operations that have, in many cases, made things worse.

What do you think the UN should do ?

It’s a completely different situation to that in Libya. There’s no clear definition
between who we perceive to be the good or bad guys.