T-33 Tribute

RE: T-33 Tribute

Douglin, did the armed T-33 see any combat in Korea?

And I greatly await your RT-33 article.

RE: T-33 Tribute

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-10-02 AT 12:40 PM (GMT)]I’m currently researching the RT-33 in USAF service for an article on SE Asia tac recce and a book on USAF tactical reconnaissance. Does anyone out there have any photos of this a/c in USAF markings they would be prepared to loan me?
Doug Gordon.

RE: T-33 Tribute

A few CAF T-Bird’s taken at CFB Trenton ON & CFB Mountainview ON. They were retired early this year but so far it looks like they are still in storage.
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RE: T-33 Tribute

Arthur, I am quite aware that the CT-133 was used for ECM training, but I also read (in AFM) that it was used for DACT exercises as well. There were even comments from pilot’s who flew against it.

RE: T-33 Tribute

No ACM nor ECM training!
On the whole, the T-Bird was a good Trainer honing the young pilot for the next stage of things to come, which in most cases was either the F-86, F-84 or the G-91. All dreams were shattered when being posted to Landsberg, Flugzeugfueherschule “A” to become an Instructor on the Fouga Magister which turned out to be another delightful aircraft to fly.

RE: T-33 Tribute

Until their very recent retirement, the CT-133’s of the RCAF
practiced ACM against the RCAF’s fleet of CF-18’s.
Apparently, they were pretty good opponents too, their small
size and good agility being key factors.

PII, the name RCAF is outdated by some four decades now. It’s CAF or CF, although they are still part of the commonwealth the royal has been dropped. And as i told you before: the CT-133s were NOT used for ACM but for ECM training. Prior to the retirement the Canadians used their CF-5s in the agressor role, and after the retirement they moved into DACT with the Americans and Europeans deployed at Goose Bay. Using T-birds as ACM opponents for modern-day fast jets would be a joke anyway as it is hardly a serious combat scenario. ECM training, not ACM.

RE: T-33 Tribute

Wow! That’s really intresting stuff Hermann.

So I assume you liked the T-33? Did you guys ever practice ACM in it? How was it as an ACM bird?

Until their very recent retirement, the CT-133’s of the RCAF practiced ACM against the RCAF’s fleet of CF-18’s. Apparently, they were pretty good opponents too, their small size and good agility being key factors.

What are your thoughts?

RE: T-33 Tribute

Hi Phantom,
still here but with having a day off (german reunification)…….

In 1962, the Lockheed T-33A , apart from the TF-104 Starfighter out of the same stable, was still the most advanced jet trainer on the inventory of the Luftwaffe. The two-place T-33A jet was designed for training pilots already qualified to fly propeller-driven aircraft. It was developed from the single-seat F-80 fighter by lengthening the fuselage slightly more than three feet to accommodate a second cockpit. Originally designated the TF-80C, the T-33 made its first flight in March 1948. Production continued until August 1959 with a total of 5,691 T-33s built.

From 1956, the birth of the new Luftwaffe, till 1964, the closure of the Flugzeugfuehrerschule “B” at Fuerstenfeldbruck, scores of Luftwaffe and Marine student pilots gained their wings and White Card Instrument rating on the “T-Bird”.

Although over 3 decades have now gone by since my last flight in this aircraft, some of the more positive as well as the odd one or other negative thing is still well remembered.

For a start there was, what would be termed today, the fuel-management system, a row of switches designed by an engineer with sadistic tendencies. For each fuel tank, apart from the fuselage tank, an off/on switch was to be found on the left hand console. After start up, all switches were in the off position so that the turbine was only fed from the fuselage tank. The digital fuel-flow counter, having previously been set to the total all up fuel of 813 US gallons (none of this lbs. or kg stuff in those days), merely started its count-down with the analogue fuselage fuel tank gauge following suit shortly afterwards. To make sure that the individual fuel pumps were doing their job, for which they after all had been designed, each pair of tanks, main wing and leading edge tanks were turned on and off in turn to monitor their function. Once on the runway, the wing tip tanks were turned on, the turbine spooled up to full power and after checking that fuel was being fed into the fuselage tank, the brakes were released for the take-off run. The tip tanks were the exception to the rule in that the fuel inside them was fed to the fuselage tank by compressed bleed air.

After an hour or so into the flight, a beady eye had to be kept on the analogue fuel gauge to catch the point at which it indicated that the tip tanks had ceased providing the fuel to the fuselage tank. If this point was missed, and hence the main wing fuel tanks forgotten to be turned on, the fuel level in the fuselage tank would go down to a point where the red “low fuel” warning light would come on. Regardless of how well the flight had gone up to that point, a pink grading sheet ,” failed”, would have been the result. Three of those in a row and the dream of wearing the wings on ones uniform was in real danger!

The positive thing about the abundance of all these fuel tanks was, that they gave theT-33A a fantastic endurance well in excess of 2.5 hours. The draw back was that a landing with a near or full fuel load was not advised due to the excessive weight. To give an indication, each full tip tank (230 US gallons capacity) did correspond to the weight of a VW “Beetle” car. In an emergency, the only way to get rid of this excess weight, was to jettison the tip tanks by pressing the red button prominently placed in the centre at the bottom of the Instrument panel. Being permanently “hot”, it was guarded by a red plastic cover which however, did not prevent one student , whilst getting up from the seat, to puncture this cover with his knee-board. The expression on his face was only beaten by that of the ground crew.

The majority of T-33A in 1962, apart from the one or two NATO conversions with their Martin Baker seats, were still sporting their original USAF equipment. Prior to the first flight, an under seven second ejection drill had to be successfully demonstrated in a cockpit mock up. Being of such an importance, the sequence was firmly welded into ones brain so that even today, yet without the adrenaline surge of having to beat those seven seconds, the sequence still comes easily to mind.
Ejection drill
Throttle: retard to idle.
Bottle: pull green knob right hand side of seat pan to activate the parachute
oxygen bottle.
Visor pull down bone dome visor.
Harness: secure
Disconnect: oxygen hose disconnected from the aircraft oxygen supply.
Position: feet placed on ejector seat foot plates, head back against head rest.
Banana handle canopy ejection activated.
Right handle: up.
Left handle: up.
Trigger: squeeze, ejection sequence initiated.

As far as I can remember, the parameters for a safe ejection were, attitude – level, IAS – 90 kts. and height above ground – 300 feet.

The only thing one could do in those days, if the engine did fail shortly after take-off or for that matter at low level with very little but the makers name on ASI, was a quick prayer, aim for the nearest bit of level ground, hold on and hope for the best. None of this quick grab above the head or for that matter between ones’ legs to initiate a fast, “with the best compliments of Mr. Baker”, departure. Mr. Baker’s life saving devices had already been around for quite a few years but unfortunately this news had not yet made its way up to the higher echelons in the German Air Force. One had to consider oneself lucky to be able to use this somewhat out of date American ejector seat, if the occasion did call for it, as there were other aircraft, like the CM170R Fouga Magister, that were not even equipped with one, never mind how antiquated! Somehow the success rate of the MB seats finally did manage, even if it was years later and alas at least on the T-33, 22 lives too late, reach the powers to be.

Power assisted controls as in the case of the T-33A, ailerons only, were something quite novel to students having previously flown either the Piaggio/FW 149 or the CCF T-6H/J Harvard Mk.IV. which were fitted with what was in those days the standard “fly by wire” controls!

Students practising their first take-off’s could quite easily be recognised as they departed to the horizons with wings rocking practising their “radio failure” procedure (flying past the tower with wings rocking indicated a radio failure).

Stabs Feldwebel O.A. Dimmelmeier, five feet nothing, stocky body, no neck, a head sporting a five o’clock shadow as an excuse for a haircut, a “wanted” description that would be recognised even today by all those that knew him at Fuersty and later on as Olt. and Flight Commander at Landsberg. Due to a shortage of QFI’s at the start of course BC-61E, StFwOA Dimmelmeier did lend a helping hand and it was my luck to draw the winning ticket! All I do remember of that first flight, is that all turns were flown at what appeared to be near the break-up point of the aircraft. About an hour into the flight the Adam’s apple was going up and down like a berserk gone yo-yo, my stomach was at the point of wanting to enjoy itself in reverse, the chap in front of me (all first flights were flown from the back- with the QFI occupying the front seat) was jabbering something incomprehensible and about this and that! All that I wanted to and cared about, was to get terra firma once again under my feet. What a lovely start this was with another 100 odd hours yet to go!

8 flights and 12 hours later the first solo on type took place and those stomach churning, spine breaking manoeuvres had just become normal routine.
Standard procedure in those days was that all fuel tank caps were left open after refuelling so that, on the external check, they had to be closed by the pilot. One of the student pilots on our course, later to become a captain with Lufthansa, was so eager to carry out his solo on type flight that, in the excitement of the event, he forgot to close the fuel tanks. The result was that shortly after take-off fountains of fuel were streaming out of the wing main and leading edge tanks, what a sight!. One the fastest solo on type flights ever to go on record.
Formation flying, not being one of my stronger points at that time, did present a certain problem on one occasion. Echelon right, echelon left, line astern, re-joins were all carried out to the satisfaction of the QFI in the lead aircraft. After being placed into line-astern, things started to warm up a bit as the initial gentle wing overs increased in magnitude giving an indication of things further to come. Sure enough, after a couple of barrel rolls, the chap in front of me got a bit carried away in that his actions were such as if he was going to shake of a bunch of Migs sitting on his tail! The only thing left for me to do, unable to follow his gyrating 3 dimensional manoeuvres, was to stand off a bit and watch his antics. After what seemed to be like hours, my Luftwaffe ace in front of me returned once again back to straight and level flight safe for me to tuck into his 6 o’clock.

RE: T-33 Tribute

Hermann?

RE: T-33 Tribute

Wow! So you’ve flown the T-33 then? That’s great. I’d love to hear about how she flew. With a 600 mph top speed, and from what I hear decent agility, she must have been fun, I’d imagine. And it appears you get great visibility from that cockpit.

RE: T-33 Tribute

Super pictures Phantom! Having gained my wings on the T-Bird way back in the 60’s, at Fuerstenfeldbruck, Flugzeugfuehrerschule “B”, the pictures certainly bring back fond memories.

RE: T-33 Tribute

Thanks A330. Glad you enjoyed them. In case it isn’t obvious, I just love the whole F-80 series of aircraft. I just love their looks, their history, and everything about them. Some people have F-86’s, others the MiG-15, but the F-80 does it for me.

RE: T-33 Tribute

Once again Phantom some great pictures… Thanx 🙂