To replace the old thread, which seems to have been archived.
The MBDA site now has more information, & some interesting pictures.
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mbda/site/ref/scripts/EN_Team-Complex-Weapon_226.html
The first picture of Fire Shadow being launched is good, until you zoom in. Rather naff artwork on the nose. Ah well.
BTW, moderators – perhaps the thread in Military Aviation should be here?
To summarise –
CAMM – Common Anti-air Modular Missile. Based on Asraam. Future SAM, for both land and (most significantly) naval applications, & AAM. To replace Asraam, Seawolf, Rapier. Includes cold launch canister, quad-packable in Sylver. Flight tests & cold launch tests.
Fire Shadow – loitering munition. Mainly for Royal Artillery, but potential naval applications. Flight tests.
FASGW (Heavy) – Sea Skua derivative, to replace Sea Skua. Also sought by France for its ANL requirement. IIR guidance, doubled range.
FASGW (Light) – LMM – Starstreak ground-attack derivative for UAVs, helicopters & surface platforms. Laser guidance.
SPEAR – 50kg class weapon. Seems to be a Brimstone derivative. Alternative seekers & warheads, for fast jets, helicopters & UAVs.
SPEAR 2 – 100 kg class weapon: version of FASGW(H) for air-ground use from fast jets.
Storm Shadow capability enhancements.
There’s a heavy emphasis on re-use of technology: not only the derivative nature of most of the weapons, but also subsystems such as warheads & seekers.
It seems rather too good to be true. This is not the MoD we know & hate: this is sensible. A wide range of weapons which the armed forces actually want, with the forces driving the requirements; co-ordination between projects, re-use of technology, a determination not to re-invent the wheel, & modularity so we don’t fall into the Brimstone trap (a great anti-armour weapon, but until modified, of little value in the wars we’re now fighting). Most of these products also look very exportable.
Comments?
By: swerve - 21st September 2015 at 14:22
I can see the logic. I wonder about the relative cost of SDB II & Spear, but there’s also the matter of whether there’s really a niche for SDB II between the longer-ranged Spear (which incorporates Brimstone bits, apparently) & PWIV.
Report on Argyll refit which mentions her new SAMs –
http://www.adsadvance.co.uk/hms-argyll-upkeep-marks-start-of-type-23-life-extension.html
Fire Shadow seems to have died.
By: mrmalaya - 21st September 2015 at 14:09
I actually don’t rate the chances of SDBII. I think the pushing back of the decision on SPEAR3 to 2018 was to allow MBDA Spear to mature. Just a feeling of course, so I’m happy to stand corrected, it’s just much better in the long run if you are thinking of UAV internal carriage as much as F35.
By: swerve - 20th September 2015 at 23:23
Time for another resurrection, methinks.
CAMM has another export customer (Brazil), & it’s been reported that ‘hardware’ has been delivered for the first CAMM installation on a ship, HMS Argyll.
Progress has been made with air-ground missiles. Brimstone 2 to be integrated on Typhoon, FASGW(H) is now Sea Venom & is committed to, a hard-target version of Paveway IV is in the works, & Spear 3 could be met by the MBDA Spear – though Raytheon is pushing SDB.
A contract has been signed to build ASRAAM updated with CAMM bits, & another member has been added to the CAMM family: CAMM-ER, with a claimed range of >45 km. A 160 kg ARH missile with a comparable range to ESSM, quad-packable in Mk 41 & Sylver VLS & with a mobile land-based launcher – what’s not to like?
CAMM-ER is reported to be likely to be fitted to the new Italian PPA, so-called ‘patrol ships’ which come in a full-on frigate version. It’ll be interesting to see if anyone else wants it, but I can think of a lot of potential customers.
By: lukos - 10th October 2013 at 12:50
Does Fire Shadow give the army something of the RAF’s ability to loiter and strike, or is it more a munition that is targeted accurately in the terminal phase?
It will be interesting to see how this is used in practice. Does the ability to loiter allow them to get targets that have effectively gone to ground then?
Yes it is very much a ‘loitering with intent’ munition.
By: kev 99 - 8th October 2013 at 19:58
Nice resurection Swerve.
CAMM/FLAADS/Sea Ceptor (ugh) has it’s first export customer.
Woohoo.
By: swerve - 8th October 2013 at 12:56
Missed your reply – & sadly, I was wrong.
Dropped in to post a picture of the CAMM launch last month from a quad pack in a Mk41 VLS.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]221741[/ATTACH]
10th September ‘near Bedford’. The press release says that LM & MBDA are developing a stand-alone three-round launcher for CAMM, cheaper, smaller & lighter than Mk 41. It seems to be a version of the four-round pack that fits into the Mk41. Suitable for small ships.
By: Mercurius - 10th May 2013 at 14:47
What source do you have for this? The only item I have seen was a story in Defense News’ that cited a speech made on April 29 by Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian at the Ecole Militaire staff college, plus comments by an unidentified source that the shape of the programme would be decided later this year by a “bilateral high-level working group” that would decide “how far and fast we go”.
In his speech, Le Drian said that last July he had extended the Lancaster House treaties of November 2010 to include “the new anti-ship missile”. However, that extension did not resulted in the creation of a funded programme for a new missile. In March, MBDA CEO Antoine Bouvier was expressing concern over the fact that the programme was in limbo due to the absence of the French share of the funding, and warned that it might have to go ahead in modified form as a UK national programme.
Nothing has changed since then. In practice, the recent French Livre Blanc is similar in status to a UK Strategic Defence Review. It is a statement of what the French government would like do in the defence field. We will have to wait and see if the FASGW(H)/ANL programme will be funded in the next French defence budget.
By: swerve - 9th May 2013 at 12:48
At last, FASGW(H) has been given approval for full development & production by both the UK & France.
By: mrmalaya - 16th September 2011 at 16:22
Does Fire Shadow give the army something of the RAF’s ability to loiter and strike, or is it more a munition that is targeted accurately in the terminal phase?
It will be interesting to see how this is used in practice. Does the ability to loiter allow them to get targets that have effectively gone to ground then?
By: swerve - 15th September 2011 at 13:51
Fire Shadow is off to Afghanistan next year.
http://defense-update.com/20110914_fire-shadow-afghanistan.html
By: Jonesy - 15th September 2011 at 12:37
Reuse is half of it, but are we seeing savings as a result of the reuse? Or just bigger profits for the manufacturer?
If those profits are re-invested in the form of private R&D and further product evolution is that such a bad thing in itself?.
By: ppp - 14th September 2011 at 15:53
It seems rather too good to be true. This is not the MoD we know & hate: this is sensible. A wide range of weapons which the armed forces actually want, with the forces driving the requirements; co-ordination between projects, re-use of technology, a determination not to re-invent the wheel, & modularity so we don’t fall into the Brimstone trap (a great anti-armour weapon, but until modified, of little value in the wars we’re now fighting). Most of these products also look very exportable.
Comments?
Reuse is half of it, but are we seeing savings as a result of the reuse? Or just bigger profits for the manufacturer?
By: mrmalaya - 13th September 2011 at 14:41
sorry swerve, here is some non-related information that seemed relevant to the topic:
Maritime Fire-Shadow at DSEi
By: swerve - 13th September 2011 at 13:18
With the widely advertised success of Brimstone in Libya, I wonder if export prospects for the enhanced Spear 2 version have improved. The reported interest from the French seems particularly significant.
By: kev 99 - 5th April 2011 at 14:59
Excellent news, potential for exports is very nice as well.
By: swerve - 5th April 2011 at 12:47
LMM has certainly survived. Production order for ca 1000 missiles placed – initially.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=6144980&c=EUR&s=SEA
Someone’s convinced the Treasury that it’s better to buy a small & relatively cheap missile for small targets.
Interesting stuff about both Turkish & UAE companies already having shown vehicle & small vessel mounts for it, & a semi-active laser version being tested. I see this selling very well.
By: Arabella-Cox - 31st March 2010 at 22:18
I think they’ve aleardy been funded, the only question is will we actually buy them, and since most of them are direct replacements for in use weapon systems I think they might be safe.
By: kev 99 - 31st March 2010 at 22:08
This is all very good news, just keep fingers crossed that these programmes survive the post election SDR.
By: swerve - 30th March 2010 at 20:45
Spear 3 seems to be bigger, maybe a variant of FASGW(H), i.e. the Sea Skua replacement.
They seem determined not to re-invent any wheels.
By: Grim901 - 30th March 2010 at 20:22
It’s actually getting somewhere –
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=4559339&c=EUR&s=AIR
A contract for Fireshadow, with deployment maybe by 2012, & the 50kg SPEAR weapon, which seems to be (as expected) a Brimstone derivative.
SPEAR Capability 3 looks interesting.
Will SPEAR 3 be another configuration of Brimstone? It’s being touted as a mini-cruise missile with long range for use on the JSF. It’d certainly be useful, especially if it was internally carried and/or cheaper than Storm Shadow. But it also depends on how they define “long range.”
In other news, MBDA seem to be hopeful that their next offering for the French mid-range anti-tank weapon will get a long range variant through cooperation with Britain and incorporating tech from the the Sea Skua replacement that’s being worked on. Sounds good.
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February 1, 2009 at 4:59 pm