Temora is to ground its CAC Sabre after this years 2015 Avalon Air Show as Martin Baker have pulled the pin on the supply of consumables for the CAC Sabres Martin Baker ejection seat.
Out of interest does anybody know the background to Martin Bakers decision ?
I wonder how many other early jet types will be grounded as a result.
By: AlanR - 13th April 2016 at 17:41
I would assume that the MB Meteors, are always fitted with the very latest seat design, in the back seat anyway.
How about the front seat ?
Wouldn’t new seats be designed in such a way, that they can easily be retro fitted to older service aircraft ?
Although not necessarily as old as the Sabre.
By: warhawk69 - 13th April 2016 at 17:02
I’m sure MB announced they were going to do this last year.
By: ErrolC - 13th April 2016 at 09:00
Some more info from Temora and MB
https://www.facebook.com/temoraaviationmuseum/posts/1306937306002588
Recently Martin-Baker spent some time at the Museum to find a suitable replacement ejection seat for the RAAF Sabre. Andrew from Martin-Baker and the Temora Aviation Engineering team trial fitted different seats which will now allow Martin-Baker to present its findings to the RAAF as they search for a solution in an effort to return the Sabre to the air.
Thankyou to all the staff at Temora Aviation Museum. The last few days have been very productive. Loads of data gathered and measurements taken. We are winding up the trials on the RAAF Sabre tomorrow. We took this photo today showing the seats we have been working with. From left to right, CH16C, AU10LH, AU8LD and Mk5. Over 60 years of aircrew safety.
By: oz rb fan - 9th April 2016 at 06:56
Considering piston warbirds and all high performance GA aircraft don’t have ejection seats, why are they a grounding item?
As long as the pilot’s he doesn’t have a way out…
The lack of a bang seat doesn’t make the a.c. any less safe for those on the ground.
it was the RAAF’s call…they own the plane and they supply the pilots…they wouldnt let it fly without an operational seat…Jeff Trappett’s avon sabre has a deactivated seat.
By: J Boyle - 9th April 2016 at 03:57
Considering piston warbirds and all high performance GA aircraft don’t have ejection seats, why are they a grounding item?
As long as the pilot’s knows he doesn’t have a way out…
The lack of a bang seat doesn’t make the a.c. any less safe for those on the ground.
By: Black Knight - 9th April 2016 at 02:17
I’m certain i read an interview with Bob Thompson & he said the MB Meteors are fitted with the latest Typhoon seats.
By: me109g4 - 9th April 2016 at 00:33
GOOD! I hate it when bureaucrats and lawyers try to ruin our fun,,,,
By: ErrolC - 8th April 2016 at 21:38
It looks like they are trialing fitting a new seat, presumably so they will fly it again.
By: JollyGreenSlugg - 7th February 2015 at 06:19
Well, they put on a great display. I was too busy watching to worry about filming it, but it was a ripper!
No doubt, actual photographers and videographers will share some decent images and videos, but I’m just glad I was there…
By: ErrolC - 6th February 2015 at 20:46
Well if we read what Temora says…
http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/news/2015/02/raaf-sabre-flying-this-weekend-for-aircraft-showcase/
RAAF Sabre flying this weekend for Aircraft Showcase
06/02/2015 Filed in: Aircraft Showcase | Airshow | Sabre
The RAAF Sabre is part of the line-up for Aircraft Showcase – Fighters at Temora Aviation Museum this weekend. It will fly with the Museum’s Meteor, Boomerang and Spitfire as part of the flying program. The next scheduled appearance for the RAAF Sabre is the Avalon Airshow later this month and after that, the Sabre will be removed from flying status for the foreseeable future. The aircraft is fitted with a Martin-Baker ejection seat which was retrofitted to the aircraft during the return to flight service program at the Museum. Martin-Baker has notified operators of historic ejection seats that they have ceased supplying parts for all historic ejection seats. This means the Sabre will be out of the air until a suitable course of action is determined, since Air Force’s current policy is to only operate the aircraft with a serviceable ejection seat. TAM’s Meteor F.8 will continue to fly for a period of time as TAM has in stock the required ejection seat consumables to keep the aircraft airworthy for a number of years.
AIRCDRE David Pietsch AM, who oversees RAAF Sabre operations as Air Force’s representative said: “In 2006 the RAAF loaned the Sabre to the Temora Aviation Museum, who subsequently returned it to flying condition over a three year period, after it had not flown for 14 years. Since that time it has successfully performed at many flying displays around the country and has been viewed by hundreds of thousands of spectators. The RAAF and Temora Aviation Museum will continue to work together in seeking available options for the Sabre’s return to flight, but for now, the aircraft will stop flying after Avalon Airshow”
By: Arabella-Cox - 6th February 2015 at 18:19
I think liability is a major issue here, and in other related aviation projects. Companies do not wish to be any part of any lawsuit, frivolous or otherwise. A pilot may be willing to take calcuated risk with older equipment, but after an incident there is a tendancy for survivors, estates, third parties, and insurance companies to go after anyone remotely involved, regarless of the cause, regardless of maintence done/not done, regardless of operator error….. Some manufacturers have taken the position to no longer support/certify certain componants or even entire aircraft, and in many case who can blame them?
Making and certifying a new set of cartriges sounds easy, but would generate little renenue, and could open you to multi-million lawsuits, especially if you can not guarantee how they will be maintained, stored, checked etc. Tough to have fun anymore…
By: Oxcart - 6th February 2015 at 18:00
As I understand it, the reason why the pilot didn’t get out of that Lightning was that NOBODY bothered to check the seat.
By: ozplane - 6th February 2015 at 17:30
Perhaps the accident to the Thunder City Lightning where, among other things, the ejector seat failed has made MB think again.
By: Fouga23 - 6th February 2015 at 14:27
Maybe an ACES II could fit?
By: Bunsen Honeydew - 6th February 2015 at 13:12
What seat would be fitted to the Meteor F8.
Normally it would be a Mk2E but the Martin Baker Meteors have been fitted with more modern seats. Might be Mk12s looking at photos but it’s difficult to tell from just a bit of the head box.
By: Paul F - 6th February 2015 at 12:22
Are MB are getting cold feet over supporting older generation seats ?
Possibly more down to the economics? The cost of maintaining full support (to the required degree of competence) for a dwindling number of older seat models is probably a factor as much as “cold feet”.
You would hope that MB offerred a suitable “notice period”/warning of intent rather than simply pulling the rug out from under their feet when the guys tried to reorder spares/consumables…
And yes, a(nother?) swap-out for a newer seat model would probably see repeat scenario in a few years’ time, so the costs of getting such a mod designed/approved would probably not make economic sense.
Could it not be operated with a properly de-activated seat – assuming pilots could be found who would be happy to fly it under such circumstances? In terms of safety risk to people on the ground then absence of a working seat probably makes little difference, though it would of course affect level of risk to any pilot flying the aircraft – would the authorities might give some form of exemption if requested?
N.B. I’m not advocating putting pilots at unnecessary risk – but just thinking of possible options… Aren’t a number of de-mobbed jet trainers already operated with deactivated seats?
By: CADman - 6th February 2015 at 12:01
Perhaps I should have said, is it not the same seat as the Sabre ? If so is the Meteor also affected. Are MB are getting cold feet over supporting older generation seats ? That might mean problems else where in the vintage jet world.
By: Bruce - 6th February 2015 at 11:01
MB Mk 2
By: CADman - 6th February 2015 at 10:57
What seat would be fitted to the Meteor F8.
By: Sabrejet - 6th February 2015 at 10:33
Deeply annoying, since the team had already installed the MB seat to overcome similar issues with the NAA seat that’s usually fitted in CAC Sabres.
One option would be to go for a (third type) of seat that is widely supported. However I can see how that might be expensive, and ultimately ending in the same situation a few years hence.
Sign In
February 6, 2015 at 7:46 am