TFC Sea Fury going P&W…

I looked in today and the engine is sat in its frame near the front of the airframe, but by no means attached!

Rob

Anyone know how the re-engine work is progressing?

Here in the US, we’ve got 3 Centaurus-powered Sea Furies flying – Ellsworth Getchell’s (N260X), Walter Bowe’s (N97SF), and one of Sanders’ two-seaters (N924G) – though I don’t know if Getchell’s Sea Fury has been flown within the last few years. I look forward to seeing WG655 up and flying again. I enjoyed seeing it first hand, shortly after its restoration had been completed by Sanders, back when it was owned by Chuck Greenhill (then based in Wisconsin), prior to it being sold to TFC/shipped to England.

I only know what my father told me re: Hercs, ‘Big’ Hercs & Centurii – he was a x rated engineer who was involved in getting Viking Hercs a good life extension & possibly also Hermes ‘big’ Hercs to run without much problems in the 50’s & 60’s. He also managed a Sea Fury & was rebuilding a Centaurus when he died. The secret seemed to be to Shell 100U oil, (& ‘Dragons blood’ to keep it where it should be) as well as temperature management so the sleeves did not pinch. When one considers the number of Hercs et al produced, serviceability was very good, although some airline pilots seemed to be harder on their power plants than others. Nowadays there can’t be anyone alive who used to maintain them in quantity, so its left to the few who unfortunately cannot gain the experience of operating them.
So to keep a sea fury in the air I would rather see one P&W’d that flies, rather than one on the deck with a dicky motor up front.

fastAeros baghdad fury is currently having engine runs, another one for legends..

https://twitter.com/hawker_fury

http://www.sandersaeronautics.com/restoration_seafury-r2800.asp

I think this is a very interesting and smart move by TFC! There are clearly a number of issues surrounding the Bristol engines at this moment in time which require further examination and rethinking of 1940’s technology, processes and design.
In the meantime they have gone to what I should imagine are very long lengths and mountains of CAA paperwork to add the R-2800 as an option and get the aircraft back up as a usable asset until such time as the Centaurus can be proven viable.

Who knows their experience with this project might enable other reworks or stop gaps allowing other aircraft with engine hold ups to be considered viable projects again.

Matt

Hi Matt, I must applaud you for making the most sensible, and considered response to an O.P. about restorations I have read on this forum for ages.

You are absolutely right…. What point is there having an aircraft if you can’t fly it, due to a major component such as the engine becoming an ongoing achillies heel.

As you state, It would be excellent to know if TFC have indeed made the necessary calculations and mods to fit an alternative engine, within the CAA’s guidance. It could help out on other Tempest and Sea Fury installations too.

I completely understand why using an American engine makes commercial sense, but, IMO, one of the best things about a Sea Fury is the noise it makes. Once re-engined it just becomes a plane based on a Sea Fury.

Agreed! The centurus is a very challenging engine to maintain and completley understand the reasoning, but what a sound the centurus makes when you hear in full flow during display

I completely understand why using an American engine makes commercial sense, but, IMO, one of the best things about a Sea Fury is the noise it makes. Once re-engined it just becomes a plane based on a Sea Fury.

“From what i am aware it is the problems with the unique idea of moving cylinders for valve timing and the associated problems that means its not as reliable”

No that was really reliable and actually attained the highest TBO’s in piston engine history;- 2200 – 3000hours compared to 1200-1500hours for the equivalent US radials.

I understand the problem is oil;- it needs a special type which was specifically developed for it and is no longer available. What is available now has proven time and time again to be inferior……normally with a rapid deterioration of the engine.

the only problem is the diameter of the R2600 one Beaufighter was modified to take R2600’s and had much extended nacelle’s…now according to WIKI…the R2800 is a smaller diameter to the herc……..might have to do more checking.

Is it really that unreliable or is it just the the low availability of repair facilities mean that when it does break it takes a long time to fix?

From what i am aware it is the problems with the unique idea of moving cylinders for valve timing and the associated problems that means its not as reliable

So we could “potentially” have 4 sea furys and a fury at Legends in July? (maintenance depending)

– Fighter Collection T20 WG655
– Christophe Jacquard FB11 FAZXJ
– Frederic Akary FB10 FAZXL (does he still own it?)
– Air Leasing Mk II SR661
– RNHF – T20 VX281

Its good to dream…

The R2800 came in two very distinct base versions, a B series in such aircraft as the P47D, Hellcat and F4U-1. It was 2000hp or there about’s and had an emergency rating with water injection of about 2300hp. The other version was the C Series in such late war aircraft as the P47M & N, F4U-4 F8F Bearcat etc It was 2300hp with a top rating of 2800hp in the P47M. Few bit are interchangeable between the engines. The C Series was the basis of the post war commercial engines and I suspect is the version going into the Seafury. The Centaurus is considerably larger in cubic capacity and had a normal rating of 2500hp.

As for the Beaufighter, a pair of R2600’s would be the closest to a pair of Hercules. Both 14 cylinders

very informative thank you

The R2800 came in two very distinct base versions, a B series in such aircraft as the P47D, Hellcat and F4U-1. It was 2000hp or there about’s and had an emergency rating with water injection of about 2300hp. The other version was the C Series in such late war aircraft as the P47M & N, F4U-4 F8F Bearcat etc It was 2300hp with a top rating of 2800hp in the P47M. Few bit are interchangeable between the engines. The C Series was the basis of the post war commercial engines and I suspect is the version going into the Seafury. The Centaurus is considerably larger in cubic capacity and had a normal rating of 2500hp.

As for the Beaufighter, a pair of R2600’s would be the closest to a pair of Hercules. Both 14 cylinders

Hi, It has always seemed to me odd that a single engined aircraft designed for naval operation should have an apparently unreliable engine.
Is it really that unreliable or is it just the the low availability of repair facilities mean that when it does break it takes a long time to fix?

“Dreadnought” is 4360 powered as is “Furias”
Rare Bear still holds the record though.

Andy

I wish it were an R-4360. Never heard one of those-and they could try for a speed record with it!

Clearly, you have little understanding of what is involved, including engineering, piloting and paperwork.

Mods,
This is why quoting people ‘should’ be encouraged. Oily rag has made a statement that infers someone above is unknowledgeable about the processes of the engine conversion, but we don’t know to which post he refers.

In the meantime OR, would you care to elaborate?

Also (unlike the “Duxford diary” thread) you can have an opinion here; what a good idea, bring it on!