That Swift again!

Last Complete F4 Swift

Even with the state she is in, I’d say down to rarity she should be saved!!

New pics and info

http://www.fightercontrol.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=28922

not my pics but an interesting link…….

Tillerman, that is brilliant thinking!

It has long struck me that the problem here is ownership and the owners fear that he will be ripped off again, as per the Spit.

Therefore the answer is to find a way of conserving/restoring the aircraft whilst permitting him to retain legal title to her. It strikes me that this could be done in several ways, two example of which are:

1. Set up a ‘Swift Support Team,’ with the aim of conserving/restoring her where she is. The owner retaining title to her, and continuing to display her outside his premises.

2. Forge an agreement where the owner is loaned a Jag/Harrier/Phantom or whatever for use as a sign whilst at no cost to him the aircraft is taken of site and restored free of charge, before being returned when complete.

Both options would ensure she survives, to hopefully be eventaully taken into a reputable collection.

Also regular contact with ordinary dedicated enthusiasts would show the owner that there are no ulterior profit motives in play here, and eventually the Swifts future could then be secured.

Steve

I don’t know if there are any A/C enthusiasts around there, but has there ever an offer been made to the owner from local warbird enthusiasts to clean the Swift up? It seems to me that everyone is feeling worried and having comments about the sorry state it is in now (and rightly so), but now it rots untill it falls apart. If I would live near such an unique airframe I would try to persuade the landlord to let me wash it down twice a year or so. It’s the next best thing as to let it accumulate dirt and grime which holds moisture and accelerates the rot. You might not like the man and actually do not want to do him a favour with your labour of love, but within 10 years or so there will be no more WK275, which is the least favourable option.

Just my two cents.

Tillerman.

I visited about two years ago – there are no problems with access to see her. As for the Jaguar issue – the owner requested a Harrier to replace her – when the wheels were put in motion he changed his mind!
There is some old bad feelings with the sale of the Spitfire and it going to the U.S . The owner is cautious about doing any deal incase the Swift turns into ‘gold’ as soon as it leaves. It will be a close run thing between the owner and the Swift surviving the longest!

Questions,
is it worth preserving or is it almost beyond restoration?

With Jags being available wouldnt a trade be available to recover the swift?

I know how much the mods hate resurrecting old threads but……………..

Im in the area of the Sheppards Swift WK275 at some point over the next few weeks.

Im intrigued by the aircraft type after finishing reading Swift Justice which was a gift for chrimbo and even more so by this poor lady which surely deserves better.

Im wanting to see the aircraft and take a few pics for my own use and am wondering are passers by allowed to photograph it like Plazz did or do they need to gain access first?

What memories this brings back!

I was amazed to find this thread. My uncle, by marriage, was named Bill Luker. He was, I am fairly sure, Percy Shepperd’s step brother. He was also, I am led to believe, the assembly shop forman at Gloster Aircraft for a good many years.

I can remember being taken to ‘The Spitfire’ pub when it was still called, I think, The Red Lion. I can recall standing on a beer crate to attempt to pull a pint. In those days it was just a two bar pub, both of which were very small. I can well remember that there was no mains electricty, lighting being provided by a large, fairground (ex-military no doubt!) generator

The family eventually bought the pub from the brewery and proceded to extend it, bit by bit. It was eventually reputed to have the second longest bar in the UK. Both Bill and his (step) brother were mad on anything to do with aircraft; hence the Spitfire (first) and then the Swift, which was bought, I was told, to balance up the forecourt. The Spitfire had its engine removed, and this was unceremoniously dumped somewhere ’round the back’. I bashed my shin on it once. It was replaced by a scanner motor which, for a shilling for some local charity, would make the propeller go round.

I haven’t been there for more than 30 years, but there was a petrol station at the front, with a large shed behind in which military spares could be bought off the shelf. Next to this was the pub’ and behind was the, mainly military, scrap yard. ‘Uncle’ Percy offered me an Austin Champ for £25 when I was 13!

The final extension to the bar area was, I remember, kitted out with aircraft seats in which one could eat the inevitable chicken in the basket, and overhead were hundreds of Airfix model aircraft. I’m sure that the local chap will be more than familiar with all this, but as I said, this brought back many happy memories. It is so sad, though, that the Swift has been left to rot. Bill Luker would, I am sure, be very sad to see it now. The last time that I saw any of the family was at Bill’s wife Cissy’s funeral.

I’m afraid that I am not so much an aviation expert, just a very interested amateur based on very frequent visits to Duxford air shows, all for free as a St John Ambulance member.

My ex wife’s family lived at Fairford in the late 60’s/erly 70’s and Concorde used to fly over the copse at the back of the house and burn the tops out of the trees when she took off. What a great shame that she came to such an end.

The idea of a sale being made with the seller being involved in any future profits happens in football. I believe my home team, Blackpool (League One) sold Brett Ormerod to Southampton (Premiership) for quite a large sum plus a sell-on/buy-back clause if he was to move on. As he’s now gone to Preston (boo-hiss!) a financial transaction will have taken place. There must be sufficient fianacial nous in the warbird community to develop something similar.

“XN923-I’d like to get to the bottom of the Swift situation though. Is the owner
a) unwilling to sell under any circumstances
b) unwilling to sell but could be persuaded if he could be sure the buyer would not do exactly what happened with the Spitfire and immediately sell on for a huge mark up
c) unwilling to sell for all but un unrealistically exorbitant sum because he thinks some moneybags enthusiast will one day come along with a blank cheque?”

My understanding is that all three have been true at one time or another, with the latter two probably most accurately describing the current state of affairs. All sorts of deals have been mooted over the years, with some coming very close and then having the goalposts moved at the last minute. Solent Sky (Southampton Hall of Aviation) for example made atleast 3 attempts to purchase the aircraft without success (they now have F.7 XF114).
As for where ‘275 would be most appropriate, I’d say Duxford would be a fitting place for her. The Swift was the first swept wing British fighter to enter service and claimed a World Speed Record for Britain,surely making her a fitting candidate for AirSpace. I emailed a senior member of IWMDux’s staff with this in mind a few months back, but sadly he said the museum would only be able to consider taking the aircraft on if it were donated.

Although I’m pretty sure the type is not on MAM’s acquisition list a Swift, as an early jet type, would fit in the collection of the Sir Frank Whittle Jet Heritage Centre.

Roger Smith.

The two collections for whom a Swift would be essential both have one – RAFM and Southampton. Sadly, whilst I would love to see it restored (The Swift is my favourite 50s jet) I can’t think of another collection for whom a Swift would be ‘must have’

Not a bad idea Royzee617 but does the owner or a museum have the cash to make an idea like this work ?

Sad tale. How about another tack? He keeps ownership but a museum restores it and displays it? Throw in a replacement – maybe a Chieftain tank or something other than a plane. That way his Swift will increase in value…. the worry would be his wanting to sell it when it is back to mint condition… needs some fancy lawyers methinks.

The real world value of that aircraft is perhaps £5-6K at the very best.

That takes into account the rarity of the aircraft and the relative desirability against an aircraft such as a Vampire. It also recognises that there will be significant outlay in getting it apart and transporting it elsewhere.

Vampires and similar are available for £2,500 or so – a complete Hunter sold for just over £1K not so long ago.

It is getting close to the point where it will not be worth restoring soon. As it stands, it needs a dedicated, experienced restorer, and is beyond the ‘wannabee’ who might be able to make a good job of an aircraft like a JP. It will however cost a small fortune to restore to even a relatively good static condition. You would probably look at an outlay of £20K plus in materials alone to come close to doing it properly.

It is, indeed, a crying shame; but from everything I hear, it is going to take a lot more than the amount I have suggested to release the aircraft from its fate.

Bruce

unwilling to sell but could be persuaded if he could be sure the buyer would not do exactly what happened with the Spitfire and immediately sell on for a huge mark up

Would it be possible to draw up a contract that would enable the current owners to get a share of the cash if it was brought and then sold for a lot more money ?

One has to ask however would anyone really be able to sell on this Swift for anymore than they might pay for it given its current condtion.

Yes that’s all well and good but where exactly would the money come from and who would be responsible for a rebuild. I cannot see the MOD taking any interest in this and I doubt the Lottery would give any cash.

What’s needed to help with long-term preservation is a national charity that could raise funds to buy rare aircraft when they became available, and provide further funds for rebuild and display indoors, or in the case of better conditioned aircraft airshow displays.

You’re right of course, and such a thing would take many years to set up, and it would most likely not be within the lifetime of this aircraft – but that doesn’t mean it’s not worth doing. In fact, I think it’s a really worthwhile aim. It would be far easier to get lottery money for something like this than for a one-off project like the Swift alone.

I’d like to get to the bottom of the Swift situation though. Is the owner
a) unwilling to sell under any circumstances
b) unwilling to sell but could be persuaded if he could be sure the buyer would not do exactly what happened with the Spitfire and immediately sell on for a huge mark up
c) unwilling to sell for all but un unrealistically exorbitant sum because he thinks some moneybags enthusiast will one day come along with a blank cheque?

All three have been suggested – does anyone have a clear idea of where the truth of the matter is?

Hi,

Love the idea of a national charity/fund, but how would the fund be prioritised?

Would it be used to buy ‘at risk’ airframes, resorationprojects or would it be better spent upon hangers to ensure the survival of aircraft or split between the three.

Steve

There should be compulsory purchase orders for this sort of thing. If it was an animal, the RSPCA would be entitled to take it away.

Yes that’s all well and good but where exactly would the money come from and who would be responsible for a rebuild. I cannot see the MOD taking any interest in this and I doubt the Lottery would give any cash.

What’s needed to help with long-term preservation is a national charity that could raise funds to buy rare aircraft when they became available, and provide further funds for rebuild and display indoors, or in the case of better conditioned aircraft airshow displays.

Getting back to the Swift can anyone who knows more about this stuff say just how much longer it can be expected to last, before simply falling apart ?

Just to clear up a bit of confusion,the record-breaking WK198 is an F.Mk.4, not a Mk.1.

Quite so. She was an Mk1 to F.Mk.4 conversion and was actually the F.Mk.4 prototype, I think.

Anyway, she was certainly an F.Mk.4 when she set her records.

Mea Culpa……………..