The 8000t "harrier carrier" concept?

How about a Sea Control Ship based on the Spanish BPE! :diablo:

If memory serves me right it was 350 million Dollars.The price of PdA is unknown to me. I don’t know the exchange rate of pesetas to Dollars in 1988.
In a book about spanish aircraft carriers “Los portaaviones Espanoles” I read that there was much delay in the construction. They changed the Combat System and relocated it. The island was changed and if you compare this design with the Sea Control Ships there are many minor changes. Building time was 9 years. Together with all the problems a yard has when entering a new area such as building an aircraft carrier I can easily imagine that PdA cost around 500 million Dollars – but I don’t know. Nonetheless I believe building something like Invincible would have cost a lot more than the PdA.
PdA is said to be of outstanding seaworthyness. The stern obviously was raised one deck.
I just added the drawings I made of how I think the gas turbine powered versions have evolved during the design process in the US.

Is there any chance to get the 150m Incat version – as a picture?

I really like the concept and as the F-35B’s enters service. I wouldn’t at all be surprised if the type becomes very popular with Western Navies!:D

If, I had my choice I would enlarge the ship to about 25,000 tons and enclose the stern……..Also, why not give it similar sensors and weapons as the Japanese 16DDH?

If memory serves me right it was 350 million Dollars.The price of PdA is unknown to me. I don’t know the exchange rate of pesetas to Dollars in 1988.
In a book about spanish aircraft carriers “Los portaaviones Espanoles” I read that there was much delay in the construction. They changed the Combat System and relocated it. The island was changed and if you compare this design with the Sea Control Ships there are many minor changes. Building time was 9 years. Together with all the problems a yard has when entering a new area such as building an aircraft carrier I can easily imagine that PdA cost around 500 million Dollars – but I don’t know. Nonetheless I believe building something like Invincible would have cost a lot more than the PdA.
PdA is said to be of outstanding seaworthyness. The stern obviously was raised one deck.
I just added the drawings I made of how I think the gas turbine powered versions have evolved during the design process in the US.

Is there any chance to get the 150m Incat version – as a picture?

Nice work!, Shiplover

The blue spot added this year is the one for a V-22 or other big chopper.

A hell of expensive ship for the Spain of the 80’s. She was launched in a hurry with a provisional island fearing that the new socialist government axed the building. Once at sea, works progressed with plenty of troubles, with continuous strikes. Public shipyards suffered a drastic resize. Finally she started long sea trials in 1988, being accepted for service in 1989. For some months both R-01 Dedalo (Ex-Cabot) and R-11 PdA were nominally in service with Spanish Armada.
Principe de Asturias cost around 100.000 million of Spanish Pesetas of the 80’s. For comparison, the 72 Hornets of the FACA program (1984-1990) cost around 300.000 million.
A ship that, nowadays, cost around the same of 24 modern fighterbombers isn’t exactly a cheap one…:rolleyes:

Regards

She was the first and only of her class which usually translates into being much more expensive! That said, what was the cost of the “Chakri Nareubet”???:confused:

I will try and show the 112m Incat design. Since this was done, Incat have increased the size of their workplace so that they can now handle ships of 150m. It would be interesting to see an 150m version of the 112m design.

Whoops. Cant download the images. Probably too big. Sorry.

Nice work!, Shiplover

The blue spot added this year is the one for a V-22 or other big chopper.

This is also a very nice Harrier Carrier!

The Principe de Asturias. A bit large, but probably not very expensive

A hell of expensive ship for the Spain of the 80’s. She was launched in a hurry with a provisional island fearing that the new socialist government axed the building. Once at sea, works progressed with plenty of troubles, with continuous strikes. Public shipyards suffered a drastic resize. Finally she started long sea trials in 1988, being accepted for service in 1989. For some months both R-01 Dedalo (Ex-Cabot) and R-11 PdA were nominally in service with Spanish Armada.
Principe de Asturias cost around 100.000 million of Spanish Pesetas of the 80’s. For comparison, the 72 Hornets of the FACA program (1984-1990) cost around 300.000 million.
A ship that, nowadays, cost around the same of 24 modern fighterbombers isn’t exactly a cheap one…:rolleyes:

Regards

VERY NICE……….KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK! On a side note I wonder if the Spanish will use the BPE as a blueprint for there next Aircraft Carrier????:rolleyes:

The long waited Principe De asturias!!
And as nice as always….great work
Whats next? Chacri narubet? Guiseppe Garribaldi?

This is also a very nice Harrier Carrier!

The Principe de Asturias. A bit large, but probably not very expensive

What make you think that South Korea and Japan have any great desire to “operate together in any likely Asian Conflict?”

Modern China does not pose the same sort of immediate threat in East Asia that the Soviet Union posed toward Western Europe. Don’t expect the East Asian democracies to form coherent organizations like NATO and the EU. The uniting threat isn’t there, and there is far too much nationalism in Asia.

Because it would be in the interests of both parties………….:p

Hello everybody!

While you discuss developments in the far East – top secret designs have escaped form german drawing boards 😉

Happy New Year 2007

The discussion about Jeanne de Arc and Vittorio Veneto inspired me to modfiy a drawing of MConrads :-))

Seems like Japan and South Korea would be ideal partners for Australia? As both operate simliar systems and would clearly operate together in any likely Asian Conflict…………..:rolleyes:

What make you think that South Korea and Japan have any great desire to “operate together in any likely Asian Conflict?”

Modern China does not pose the same sort of immediate threat in East Asia that the Soviet Union posed toward Western Europe. Don’t expect the East Asian democracies to form coherent organizations like NATO and the EU. The uniting threat isn’t there, and there is far too much nationalism in Asia.

I would like to see the RAN get two smaller amphibs than planned, the South Korean 200m ship at 18’500t looks quite competent. Then a further two larger ships that would be aircraft capable. Perhaps as a joint project with Japan, who may also be interested in renewing their naval aviation.

Incidentially, Happy New year everyone!

Seems like Japan and South Korea would be ideal partners for Australia? As both operate simliar systems and would clearly operate together in any likely Asian Conflict…………..:rolleyes:

I would like to see the RAN get two smaller amphibs than planned, the South Korean 200m ship at 18’500t looks quite competent. Then a further two larger ships that would be aircraft capable. Perhaps as a joint project with Japan, who may also be interested in renewing their naval aviation.

Incidentially, Happy New year everyone!

Many posts showed interest in the Jeanne de Arc.
Here are plans of this ship:
http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/Plans/planbato.php?id=446
I hope it works. Try with right klick and then load down.
The plans are very detailled and show every chair and bed as planned.
On these pages you can change to Foch, Clemenceau and other designs with wonderful plans.
These seem to be the plans of the original design with the big Masurca Magazine. Does anybody know how they have been used in reality?

This site has been updated in the last month or so, and many plans have been added including Jeanne D’Arc and the destroyer Suffren. There are still many pre-1965 plans missing, but at least we know that full drawings still exist for many unbuild French projects like the cancelled PA58 “Super Carrier.”

Found the plans

Hi Shiplover – I have the heard saying that someone has “lost the plans/plot” many times in my life ,but my friend you seem to have found the plans. I have got a lot of benifit & enjoyment out of your posts & particularly your plans on this thread. .Too late for a Merry Christmas but wishing you a very happy & prosperous New Year.

Many posts showed interest in the Jeanne de Arc.
Here are plans of this ship:
http://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/02fonds-collections/banquedocuments/planbato/planbato/Plans/planbato.php?id=446
I hope it works. Try with right klick and then load down.
The plans are very detailled and show every chair and bed as planned.
On these pages you can change to Foch, Clemenceau and other designs with wonderful plans.
These seem to be the plans of the original design with the big Masurca Magazine. Does anybody know how they have been used in reality?

Does anybody know a link to Vittorio Veneto with plans or fotos of the interior?
I very much like the elegance and firepower of this design.

Regards shiplover

here’s a nice picture of Jeanne d’Arc while visiting Split recently…

Guys, what about the Kiev class… I know that it isn’t small as the projects/ships discussed earlier, but what do you think about it’s design. Would it been succesfull in it’s ASW role against NATO forces?

Phew…being the atheistic prick I am, I forgot to wish everyone a merry christmas:) … my apologies

Merry Christmas Shiplover, I love your work.

Unicorn

Fedaykin asked about the reloads, so here are the informations I have about this design (source Brown Moore: Rebuilding the Royal Navy):
28 Sea Slug Missiles, 12 ready for use 16 broken down. Displacement 6400 tons twin shaft turbine maschinery. Waterline lenght 485 feet. The reloads were under the bridge in a magazine. The extension of this magazine should end somewhere in front of the funnel.

Note: Nobody seems to have noticed the christmas greetings:
Note the visitor in front of the Seaking, the flag signal showing limited maneuverability and the christmas tree on the front radar mast.

So – Merry christmas to all ;-))))

By the way Jeanne de Arc for me seems to be a very good answer (30 years erlier) to the discussion of a “global cruiser” which was planned for the Royal Navy. some time ago.

Thanks Mate!

Merry Christmas to all!