The aircraft in the "Blue Max"

I have home movie footage of the German marked Stampe flying at a Barnstormer Airshow at Sywell in the late Sixties! Also the Alouette Heli’s registration was G-AWEE, this was lost in the mid air with the full size Miles SE5 replica durring filming of “Zepperlin”

This topic has just ‘popped-up’ on another forum, and quickly linked to this thread. However there is fresh information regarding five of the ‘extras’ from “Blue Max”, 4 x Tiger Moths and a Stampe that found their way back to the UK in December 1965.

http://www.derbosoft.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=history&thread=8220

Hang on, that IS G-AVEB.

It was repainted in the early 90’s.

That aeroplane was not the one in the film.

The pic above is from the collection of Peter Fitzmaurice, who was a great aviation enthusiast, and was sadly lost in the Nord accident near Andover in September 2009.

Wasn’t that plane owned by the Hon. Patrick Lindsey (sp?) in the 70s?
There was a nice feature on it by him in an early 70’s issue of Air Enthuiast magazine.

He wrote that when he returned to flying he wanted a vintage aircraft and went looking for a WWI survivor…hoping to find a Sopwith Camel or Se-5, only to discover that real WWI aircraft were not exactly common!

MS 230

I was always informed by Tony and the other members of the team that this was one of 2 aircraft that were used to film the sequences involving the aircraft. Either way this was the one that was at Booker when i was there! 😀

Hang on, that IS G-AVEB.

It was repainted in the early 90’s.

That aeroplane was not the one in the film.

http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1158659/

The pic above is from the collection of Peter Fitzmaurice, who was a great aviation enthusiast, and was sadly lost in the Nord accident near Andover in September 2009.

Thanks for those Comet4, very nostalgic for us locals. I can’t remember if G-AVEB ( the other 230 ) was still at Booker at that time.

Welcome to the forum.

Morane MS230 from the Blue Max

This aircraft was based at at Booker for several years and was still there in the late 1990s when I worked at the Blue Max museum. It was wearing french airforce markings when i was there. During the movie it was painted silver and appeared atthe end of the film as a new prototype fighter, the hero you may recall was killed trying to fly it! One interesting thing about that last sequence was the fact that when the aircraft is seen heading for the ground, in the background of the shot can be seen a Transit van parked outside a portakabin!

Have stumbled across a cache of Blue Max stuff, which I don’t recall seeing before, though I haven’t searched the whole archieve.

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/wwi.htm

”In the early 1980s, a group called the Fighting Air Command (FAC) was formed to fly WWII aircraft. Then, a number of the aircraft used in making the movie The Blue Max came up for sale in Ireland, and were purchased and shipped to Hartlee Field, near Denton, Texas. There, many of the planes were reassembled and flown by members, including myself. These are some notes and other documents either received with the planes or developed by myself to help others fly them. The F.A.C. was disbanded in the late 1980s and both the WWII and WWI aircraft sold to various new owners. There are also some photos of WWI aircraft, including my own Dr.I Triplane and other Blue Max planes, plus my father, who served in France in WWI.”

”Caudron 277, built by Caudron, serial number 7546/135, N907AC, former EI-ARF, hours unknown. Not currently certified or flyable. This aircraft was modified to play both the British and German two-seaters in the movie. It was heavily damaged in a hangar collapse in Ireland and needs complete rebuilding. ”

Also included is pilot’s notes for all the a/c.

”Notes on Flying the Miles / SE5a Replicas

[These aircraft were not acquired by the F.A.C. and are believed
to have been full scale replicas. We were told that both crashed
during filming or shortly after.]

These SE5 replicas have simple handling characteristics and ample
power.

Starting

Chocks in place and fire extinguishers at hand. Fuel **** on
(Push on), throttle closed, switches off. Pull ring at top,
right hand side of instrument panel until ground crew confirm
that fuel drips out of the carburetor overflow pipe below the
cowling. Prime with one to two full strokes of the Kigas primer
while the propeller is turned over. Do not over prime or you may
start an intake fire.

Throttle set at half an inch open, both switches on and press the
starter button.

After starting, check for normal oil pressure and warm up at 1000
– 1200 r.p.m. for 5 minutes when cold. (Oil temperature may not
register in this time)

Stick hard back during run up. Check for a dead cut, normal
static revs 2100. Select hot air (Turn T handle and pull) and
check that the engine note changes or the r.p.m. drops indicating
that the control is serviceable. Return the cold air. The
acceptable magneto drop is 100 r.p.m. Check the oil pressure is
normal and the slow running 6 – 700 r.p.m.

Taxying

There are no wheel brakes but the steerable tail skid gives very
satisfactory steering in most conditions on grass. Use extreme
caution on concrete as the tailskid gives no control and the
aircraft is heavy and cannot be stopped quickly. Care is needed
to prevent a ground loop after landing on concrete.

Vital Actions

Normal pre take off and landing drills should be used. However,
there are no trimmers, pitch control, mixture or flap. The fuel
gauge tap on the instrument panel should be kept in the off
position except then using the gauge as otherwise air could enter
the fuel lines and cause an air lock during steep attitudes. The
gauge is of little value as slight changes in attitude upset the
reading.” etc.

One of the SE5s was lost in a mid-air with the Alouette camera helicopter, over Wicklow Bay, Ireland,during filming of Zeppelin. The other was lost, a couple of weeks later, in a crash on September 16, 1970 during the Richthofen & Brown project.

Yep, stumbled across that myself about a year or so ago:diablo:

Have stumbled across a cache of Blue Max stuff, which I don’t recall seeing before, though I haven’t searched the whole archieve.

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/wwi.htm

”In the early 1980s, a group called the Fighting Air Command (FAC) was formed to fly WWII aircraft. Then, a number of the aircraft used in making the movie The Blue Max came up for sale in Ireland, and were purchased and shipped to Hartlee Field, near Denton, Texas. There, many of the planes were reassembled and flown by members, including myself. These are some notes and other documents either received with the planes or developed by myself to help others fly them. The F.A.C. was disbanded in the late 1980s and both the WWII and WWI aircraft sold to various new owners. There are also some photos of WWI aircraft, including my own Dr.I Triplane and other Blue Max planes, plus my father, who served in France in WWI.”

”Caudron 277, built by Caudron, serial number 7546/135, N907AC, former EI-ARF, hours unknown. Not currently certified or flyable. This aircraft was modified to play both the British and German two-seaters in the movie. It was heavily damaged in a hangar collapse in Ireland and needs complete rebuilding. ”

Also included is pilot’s notes for all the a/c.

”Notes on Flying the Miles / SE5a Replicas

[These aircraft were not acquired by the F.A.C. and are believed
to have been full scale replicas. We were told that both crashed
during filming or shortly after.]

These SE5 replicas have simple handling characteristics and ample
power.

Starting

Chocks in place and fire extinguishers at hand. Fuel **** on
(Push on), throttle closed, switches off. Pull ring at top,
right hand side of instrument panel until ground crew confirm
that fuel drips out of the carburetor overflow pipe below the
cowling. Prime with one to two full strokes of the Kigas primer
while the propeller is turned over. Do not over prime or you may
start an intake fire.

Throttle set at half an inch open, both switches on and press the
starter button.

After starting, check for normal oil pressure and warm up at 1000
– 1200 r.p.m. for 5 minutes when cold. (Oil temperature may not
register in this time)

Stick hard back during run up. Check for a dead cut, normal
static revs 2100. Select hot air (Turn T handle and pull) and
check that the engine note changes or the r.p.m. drops indicating
that the control is serviceable. Return the cold air. The
acceptable magneto drop is 100 r.p.m. Check the oil pressure is
normal and the slow running 6 – 700 r.p.m.

Taxying

There are no wheel brakes but the steerable tail skid gives very
satisfactory steering in most conditions on grass. Use extreme
caution on concrete as the tailskid gives no control and the
aircraft is heavy and cannot be stopped quickly. Care is needed
to prevent a ground loop after landing on concrete.

Vital Actions

Normal pre take off and landing drills should be used. However,
there are no trimmers, pitch control, mixture or flap. The fuel
gauge tap on the instrument panel should be kept in the off
position except then using the gauge as otherwise air could enter
the fuel lines and cause an air lock during steep attitudes. The
gauge is of little value as slight changes in attitude upset the
reading.” etc.

Some stories suggest one of the Fokker D-V11s ground-looped during filming in Ireland. This is not the case. It was wrecked in the United States.

Thats the one thats at the Southern Museum of Flight in Alabama and is now on static display.

Just finished watching the “Blue Max” on BBC2 and I was wondering what happened to the aircraft used in the film, particularly the SE5 “replicas”. I seem to remember that they were not easy to fly and were in store for a long time after the film was completed. Which Tiger Moths and Stampes were used as “fillers”? My wife and I stumbled on to the set while on a touring holiday in Ireland and it was very strange being spoken to by a “German” officer with a broad Irish accent. The plot may have been corny but the flying was better than the current CGI stuff and Ursula Andress looked good too!

The two full sized SE5s were a charm to fly. They had lots of power, unlike the three D-V11s that had been constructed with tubing that had thicker walls than specified in the plans. The two Pfalz D-111s were a little stodgy but the Fokker Triplane was really the most exciting of all.

I purchased the collection after The Blue Max and did several films, plus a load of TV ads before selling the collection to Allen Clarke’s Fighting Air Command in Texas. He had some problems and the aircraft were dispersed from there. Some stories suggest one of the Fokker D-V11s ground-looped during filming in Ireland. This is not the case. It was wrecked in the United States.

Javier sold both of his ex-Blue Max aircraft (Pfalz and Fokker D.VII) to Peter Jackson and both are now in NZ, so Jackson now has both Pfalzes from the movie and one of the Fokker D.VIIs http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/files/images/classic-fighters-2007/screensize/cf07_gc02.screensize.jpg . One of the other D.VIIs is in Belgium, http://www.stampe.be/engels/d7.html , and the other in the Southern Museum of Flight in Birmingham, Alabama, http://www.southernmuseumofflight.org/Aircraft%20Collection/Fokker/index.html .

As discussed on the other thread the Luciole is in storage in Florida.

–

Lynn Garrison is now a member

Hello- I am Lynn’s son, and wanted to let you all know that he is going to be able to communicate with you all here. I made this profile for him after our Birthdays had passed, and think it will be nice for all involved to carry the conversations regarding the Blue Max and other collections.
Please send him mails with any questions, and also see the photo album that is included with the profile for him here.

Happy Landings to you all!

The ‘Blue Max Museum’…

…was at Booker, near High Wycombe, Bucks.

Transferred to Compton Abbas, Dorset and now called the ‘Flying Aces Museum’ and still with Tony Bianchi.

Mark

Dave – I’ve been to that museum so many times!! Most of the exhibits are now at another museum (whose name escapes me at present) at Compton Abbas(!).

They had the MS.230 from “The Blue Max”, plus the Sopwith Camel from “The Great Waldo Pepper”, the Fokker E.III and one of the Stampes from “Aces High” and, of course, Spitfire MkI AR213 (which movie was this one in again?? :D)

The Camel and the Eindekker both appeared in the latest Stella Artois advert.

For me, “Aces High” has much better combat sequences (although the sharp-eyed among you will notice one or two were lifted from “The Blue Max”), and a much better story. The Stampes make fairly convincing SE5s, while an assortment of other types (including the Tiger Moth) make up the German contingent. I was never sure the Eindekker was quite correct for the film’s setting, though :rolleyes:

Wasn’t there a museum in the early 1990’s called The Blue Max Museum, which was devoted to aerial films and television? Perhaps they had some of the Blue Max planes, or know what happened to them.

I’ve never seen Blue Max or Aces High, but I have found memories of the BBC series “Wings” – how do they compare?

I believe that Richard Bach did some of the flying, or flew the same replicas for the later ‘Aces High’.

Favourite moments for me? Ursula Andress’s gravity defying towel! 😮

Moggy

I flew into Powerscourt once.

According to a Bach book, he flew for a 1971 film “Richtofen and Brown.” (sometimes called “The Red Baron”).

If I recall correctly, Irish Air Corps (IAC) pilots flew some of those aircraft during filming………which included many a ‘dogfighting’ scene !

And most (all?) of the filming was done at Baldonnel Air Base, home then (and now) of the IAC.

I believe that Richard Bach did some of the flying, or flew the same replicas for the later ‘Aces High’.

Favourite moments for me? Ursula Andress’s gravity defying towel! 😮

Moggy

I flew into Powerscourt once.