The Baroness Thatcher thread

Tony Blair was/is also a conviction politician, and shared the same goals.

Its interesting to note, that while there are clearly a good number of left wing viewpoints being espoused here, that there isnt currently a party that supports those views. The current labour party has certainly moved left under Milliband, but is still largely centrist. Lib Dem is also slightly to left of centre, Tories are right of centre, and UKIP have positioned themselves squarely in Margaret Thatchers shoes.

Where then does the conviction socialist go now? Is there a party for them any more?

Its interesting to note that the ‘protest’ vote, is currently well to the right of the established parties – and slap bang in Thatcher territory…..

Bruce

Andy
Since you are being obtuse I’ll spell out what I mean. Her conviction, rooted in her upbringing, was to better the country and the lives of its people. I believe she and Attlee shared those aspirations but from opposing political means.
None of the people you mention are/were in public life elected to serve, so far as I am aware.
And to avoid any misunderstanding Jesus of Nazareth was a historical figure. I am an atheist and do not believe in gods. So whilst accepting Jesus’ existence I do not believe he was a deity on Earth.

Perhaps she isn’t responsible for all our ills, but she made a damn good attempt at it.

And the subsequent Labour administration must be responsible for all the rest, then. In other words; most of them.

Funnily enough, another Labour administration had left an equally squalid mess for the Thatcher administration, as I recall.

And as for the suggestion that Thatcher destroyed British industry and the Unions, I would suggest that British industry and the Unions destroyed British industry and the Unions.

I dont support everything that Margaret Thatcher did, or indeed that which was done in her name, however, her basic idea that the individual should be responsible for their own actions, is I believe, broadly laudable. It was summed up somewhere this week very well, in three words – ‘Take responsibility, act’. The trouble with that, and indeed with most political creeds, is that it ignores those who dont have the capacity or training to do so. It is why we end up talking of a ‘scrapheap’ or those who were unable or unwilling to change after their chosen profession ceased to be.

The majority of the industries in government hands in the 70’s were badly run, and unprofitable. I see no reason why that status quo should have been allowed to continue. Our automotive industry made outdated cars that people outside of the UK didnt want. Our steel industry made steel that was far more expensive than anyone else’s; likewise our coal industry.

Where could she go?

In reality, the capitalism which she espoused, collapsed nearly twenty years after she left power, yet no-one sought to fundamentally change it. I suspect the tipping point may have been the recession that never was, due in 2001-2, but bought out by New labour, with tax credits, and other welfare payments.

Bruce

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Those that are still blaming one person for their misfortune, thirty odd years on, have missed the point – we only have one life, and you’ve just wasted it.

Bruce

I don’t blame Thatcher for my “misfortune”, in reality I fared quite well under Thatcher, but I saw what she did, I saw the attitude she took, I read the warnings that a few lone voices were giving out regarding the longer term effects of her policies, most of those warnings have come true.

The housing rental market has been thrust back almost to the state of Rachman (anyone remember that crook) which in turn has fostered the sky high housing benefits, our public utilities are now just a milch cow for the financiers any concept of providing a service has long gone, public transport one of the worst if not the worst in Europe.

Our only time ever when we were a next exporter of gas and oil, the revenues squandered on unemployment pay rather than developing and modernising ageing industries, because it suited Thatcher to destroy jobs and workers rights, her main target of course being destruction of the Trade Union movement, can’t have common working people holding opinions and having a voice.

Perhaps she isn’t responsible for all our ills, but she made a damn good attempt at it.

See, even he had an angle..!!:)

Please nobody suggest that Jesus had a book to promote!

Andy – don’t patronise me it doesn’t suit you. But it is difficult for old cynics like you to accept that not every politician is in it for themselves.
Margaret Thatcher never was but you will never be convinced otherwise.

Don’t write nonsense then and I won’t have to.
Where is your proof to back up your bold statement.
Everyone has self interest Charlie–you, me, my 85 year old Mother, Margaret Thatcher and Mother Theresa it’s how you get by in life.
Dennis was a millionaire, I don’t care if he was, good luck to him, but self interest achieved that goal. The same as anyone else who ever turned a Pound.
You don’t get to lead any organisation without it–least of all a serious political party.
Only Jesus Christ was supposedly without it–and you don’t believe in him.
You’ve stated it here.

Does everything need spelling out?

Yes it does re-read your post!

Methinks you just did! :rolleyes:

Exactly!

And even if one believes that Margaret Thatcher’s policies were entirely the cause of spawning a ‘greed is good culture’ that has nothing whatsoever to do with the current gross display of ill-mannered, loutish, crude, uncivilised, crass, demeaning and un-British rantings from those who seem to believe that she was solely responsible for all that has gone wrong in Britain today. In any event, such behaviour is emanating (solely) from the those who are somewhat left of centre and, presumably, did not come under spell of the ‘greed is good’ culture; ergo, they should not be behaving in this manner since this culture would not be affecting them. Although strangely enough, it seems to be.

Silver Fox – if there was plenty of warning and her government chose to ignore it how come none of this made the press before the war and how come U.S intelligence sources in the region didn’t relay this information to the U.K ? Or is it just that there is no evidence to support this and saying that a nuclear submarine should have been dispatched to the region is easy to say after the event?

There’s quite a similar situation in North Korea at present. Are all of our current lot ‘Clueless’, or are they hoping that things will calm down without having to fire a shot?

Charlie, you may well be right about ‘What if’, but it can be a useful consideration. Of course, we will never know for sure, but….

Andy – don’t patronise me it doesn’t suit you. But it is difficult for old cynics like you to accept that not every politician is in it for themselves.
Margaret Thatcher never was but you will never be convinced otherwise.

:confused: So what you’re proposing is that after they’d invaded was to send down another sub and nuke ’em?

Does everything need spelling out?

Callaghan sent a sub down there while Aregentina was still sabre rattling and announcing a fleet exercise, but Thatcher was to damn busy selling anything not nailed down to take notice when the same sequence began again, or do you imagine that the invasion fleet and air force were assembled and trained up without anyone noticing.

There was plenty of warning, but Thatcher and her clueless government ignored them all.

I should think Blair has made Labour un-electable for the future far beyond the life expectancy of anyone here to be honest.

Maybe thats the case it could be argued that Blair and Brown have made the ‘bland’ Miliband unelectable too to the degree that his brother decided it was time to get away from his shadow!

Actually my LC250 probably did closer to 170 MPH but I didn’t want to be seen to be exaggerating, and I Am NOT! I was astride it at low level in the back of a Chinook :p

Very drool…:);):)

I have a Kawasaki 400 triple in at the moment. The owner collects Kawasaki triples, and I’ll be having the 500cc version that he owns in for some work next month.
I’ve also got an early ’75 Goldwing in, a smattering of V4 Hondas, a CB900 and a Yamaha XJ650.
Oh and a Yamaha 600cc Thundercat, awaiting MOT.
And a Francis Barnett 250 twin.

I’m still formulating my answer to last nights thoughts on society.

A.

“What if” questions always fascinate but never educate. Only because we simply cannot know what might have been. It would have taken someone equally strong and with an equally passionate vision to have set in train the same upheavals. I don’t think anyone else of remotely similar convictions was in position to lead the Tories and win.

Indeed – in point of fact, she made the conservatives unelectable for quite some time!

Trumper – Margaret Thatcher lacked any sense of ego or self interest.

Charlie, if you really believe that could you get me an ounce of whatever you’re smoking these days, when you next see your dealer.
Of course she had self interest–she got to lead her party, or are you seriously telling me she was completely selfless in that and everything else? What about Dennis and his business affairs in what at the time was apartheid
South Africa–bit of tacit support there I’d wager??

And what about how she meddled with the successive leaders of her party, Major–who she supported initially, Hague or Irritable Bowel Syndrome.

You’re an intelligent bloke most of the time–don’t let yourself down by writing b*ll*cks–please.