The Brenzett Aerojumble 2nd event Saturday 11/4/15

Hi Ross, Yes I think the authorities are deploying a “better safe than sorry” attitude, we were permitted to continue with our journey and to be honest because they didn’t get silly about the Halifax panel we were carrying we did not feel put out. I would rather they checked these things out. I think it is the way the authorities handle these historical items that is the important thing, in the past items have been wrongly confiscated due to inexperience or ignorance, in our case they simply did their job – checked up on our story and then let us on our way. These scanners are indeed very sensitive, I guess they have to be as those who are up to something let’s say more dodgy then these kind of people are more likely to try to hide the item to reduce the “glow”. The instrument panel in question has I believe been on this forum in the past, it contains the normal standard British wartime instruments that providing sensible precautions are taken then there is no risk to the public.

I have also been to Coventry, collected an item from the radiation proof tunnel for it to be handed over to me is a plastic bag where I drove out! that I have to say seems a bit pointless and daft.

Although emissions from instruments are within safe limits they still attract attention in the postal system.

Last year I had an 8 day clock passed by US postal system and carried over by air mail.

It was stopped at Coventry hub by Parcel Force and would not be sent by UK system. I was asked to collect and sign for. Although a minor niggle I was glad that I could still receive the instrument.

I drove up to Coventry with the top half of a Halifax Engineers panel in the back of the estate aiming to drop this off on the way back.

On arrival at Coventry I was directed to drive through the main gate and park up but as I approached the second barrier the alarms sounded.

The part panel had set off the sensor.

Speaking to the bods after I reversed out of site they said that all artic loads in and out pass through the gate sensor and will be stopped if the alarms are set off.

So sensitive enough to detect a group of 8 instruments at approx. 10 metre and 20 mph.

I would expect the port border controls to use the same kit.

Ross

Radiation is a much smaller problem that is sometimes made out. The vast majority of aircraft instruments available whether online or at jumbles are perfectly safe.

The usual touchstones are compasses (as mentioned above), and some (not all) wartime instruments.

Thank you Air Ministry, although I have no idea if Brenzett will run it again. For my part, I am now officially ‘retired’ from the aerojumble scene.

Regards radiation sensitivity -I recall recently an Auster 6 project was stopped at a crossing from the U.S to Canada when the compass set of a detector. The aircraft was in a box van.

Some of the smaller items on Ebay are being described as rare. but with more than 10 available, and the make an offer facility in my own experience is not worth trying to use, these parts at the lower end of the spectrum are still way over priced, and I refuse to buy them.

Its a buyers market – if there is a make offer facility, then try it. If you are buying from me, I consider every offer, whatever it is.

I have done a few jumbles over the years as a seller. It rarely pays for itself, though that isn’t the only reason to do it. However, when I can sell a part on ebay for 40 quid, and haggle to sell the same thing for a tenner at a jumble, I have to question the reasons for doing it sadly.

I just about scrape a living selling this stuff online, and have always thought it a worthwhile thing to do – to seek to supply likeminded enthusiasts, with reasonably priced parts for their projects. In nine years, I have supplied most of the flying collections with stuff, and a huge number of private collectors. Absolute prices for this stuff are a waste of time, but you have to start somewhere. Its why all my listings have a ‘Make Offer’ button..

Bruce

Just a few last minute observations from me, having just got home from Brenzett (and that’s not meant to be a sly dig at the distances involved!).

A much better event than I had expected, to be honest. Yes, it was disappointing to see the lack of support from traders but visitor attendance on saturday was much, much better than in September. I think Brenzett should persevere and hopefully, they will end up with a good, worthwhile, annual event. It may never recover to the old Shoreham statistics but I think Andy summarised the reasons for that in post #31.

Regarding the business of the day, I had not too bad a result on the selling side, and quite a good result on the collecting side, albeit mostly paperwork, apart from three good lengths of .303″ ammunition belt (fully deactivated of course) which should boost the turret projects. An original copy of Bomber Command Form B, setting out details of the nights operations against Nuremburg, etc on 30th/31st March 1944, 5 Group Servicing Notes for Lancasters, and a good, detailed view of the Control Cabin of the R100 showing the various flight instruments. I also found part of the Vol. I for the Whitley V and almost the whole of Vol. II, Part III “How to repair your Whitley bomber should you ever need to”.

Whether I’m there next year depends on a number of factors, none of which I can accurately forecast at the moment. I’m certainly not saying “never again” though.

Well done Andy and the guys at Brenzett for all your efforts.

Something which I have stated previously, it would be good if aviation or history magazines could offer a page on collecting aviation memorabilia, similar to the monthly book reviews, each month a page on some aspect of collecting written by collectors themselves. Be it propellers, instruments, books, postcards, photographs, head gear, ejection seats, yokes, clocks, wreckology, insignia, cockpits, paintings, log books, the list goes on…this would generate new interest and make more people aware of what is out there and what can still be found, It in turn could be beneficial for aerojumbles which could get a mention in the articles as a possible source of supplies.

With regards to the above article of radioactive instruments and crossing borders. I think the writing has long been on the wall for these types of instruments. Royal Mail now frequently check packages and stop items in mid flow refusing to deliver the items onwards making it difficult when buying or selling over the Internet. Checks at aerojumbles with gieger counters are not uncommon at some sites, eBay also forbid these types of instruments from being sold although the latter is not obviously enforced and is difficult to do so without the correct equipment. It’s becoming increasingly harder to trade freely in these old instruments, more hassle than it was worth so I passed on my collection some years back. Either the boarder police have very good sensitive equipment or your Halifax panel must have been glowing hot for the emissions to have been coming out of the van! Anyhow it would be good to see a photo of it sometime, certainly not many of these about.

Very true, Junk Collector.

Another factor to add in to my list of the five reasons I already cited for the down-turn in viability of such events.

The lack of some traders, is not just due entirely to their operating overheads, the supplies of a lot of stock has dried up, a very few outlets seem to have ring fenced the supplies, and exerting a stranglehold on parts which is being used to ask insane prices for parts via Ebay. well out of the reach of many average enthusiasts. Before this, many enthusiasts used to be sellers of these items, to raise money for their own projects. These unrealistic prices are also fuelling others to ask similar when they want to sell aircraft parts, which they also don’t end up selling.

Some of the smaller items on Ebay are being described as rare. but with more than 10 available, and the make an offer facility in my own experience is not worth trying to use, these parts at the lower end of the spectrum are still way over priced, and I refuse to buy them.

I do not see the point of holding out on selling parts at prices people won’t pay. I have said before I have bought items from Israel, the US, Holland, Germany, and Turkey, you after time build up a network of contacts which takes longer but can be cheaper, and avoids bowing to the situation in the UK.

Not many years ago, different people would turn up with crates of mixed surplus items, including cockpit instruments, fittings etc that fed the general need for parts, and also supplying the satisfaction of rummaging and finding prize items, Some of my projects I accept will take years to get near finish, and one I have got somewhere with has comprised mostly of parts obtained outside the UK.

for many like my self I don’t need tables of repro WW2 items, or nuts and bolts, Unless there is some shift in this, aerojumbles for some enthusiasts are not a viable option

I didn’t go because I didn’t fancy the four mile walk from Appledore Station to Brenzett, at least not in the rain.

I do find that I’m buying less and less at Aerojumbles for three reasons. There’s less “kit” available, what there is often costs too much, even if I have the money I won’t pay it, I’m concentrating on existing projects and not starting new ones, due to price and a lack of space to expand.

That said, Aerojumbles are a good social event and the only place I see some people.

I agree with Andy that there are almost no young people purchasing aviation items. I don’t hold with the view that it’s because they’re all at home playing on games consoles or watching TV. There are lots of other heritage areas that do attract young people. I remember when you could fill an instrument panel for about £100, possibly less. On ebay yesterday two instruments went for over £400 each. Someone new to aviation is going to see that and do something cheaper. We need to go out and draw people in. A non fraudulent operation similar to the Wasp that did the rounds of supermarket car parks was a brilliant example of how to do it. I cold go on at length on this topic but it all comes down to marketing. Make it attractive and accessible to young people, tell them about it and they’ll join in.

Well I enjoyed the day, despite the rain, did quite well on selling and spent a total of £1 apart from a bacon roll & tea !

that must have been the cheapest bit of original Spitfire on offer !

really nice to catch up with a few old friends who I never see from one event to the next, so will be sad to see it disappear.

Thanks to Andy who really tried to make a go of it for Brenzett.

Jules

For me at least, going to Brenzett/Shoreham to sell bits is no longer financialy viable. I go to aerojumbles to sell parts in order to raise funds my projects, as well as to buy stuff that I need. If I went to Brenzett, it would cost me somewhere in the region of £120 for the table & fuel etc “more if I stay in a B+B overnight”. I would need to sell well over £400 worth of bits just in order to cover my costs, which is something I rarely managed to do at Shoreham, and I’m guessing it would be the same at Brenzett. When you also take into account the fact that I hardly ever find anything I need, it makes it even less worth my while going. I also used to really enjoy chatting with people at Shoreham about their various projects “especially the madcap ones”, but even this aspect has changed.

I still go to the Newark jumbles as the costs involved are less than half those of going to Brenzett/Shoreham.

Whilst I hate sounding as though monetary concerns are my top priority, the £120 that it would cost me, will pay for 1 cubic foot of aircraft grade spruce, or about 2 sheets of ply.

Bob T.

As a heads-up, items that may contain asbestos are also becoming more of an ‘issue’ e.g. wartime gas masks / cases; some types of military helmet etc.

Overseas traders travelling to these events do face problems, as do collectors – and a few salutary warnings, here!

I am aware that this has caused significant problems with dealers travelling to the War & Peace Show in the past as regards to what they were carrying – sometimes with good cause, I suspect.

Additionally, it is very important to bear in mind that there is now added ‘sensitivity’ in terms of travelling with items that may be regarded as ‘heritage’ items that may, or may not, be battlefield relic related. The trade in such items is, effectively, being closed down. In very many respects that is a very good thing, but it can cause problems for those collecting (or dealing) in legitimate de-activated/inert shells, shell cases, WW1 and WW2 aircraft parts etc. English Heritage now have a Heritage Protection Officer who works closely with British Customs and the French and Belgian authorities. Thus, the transport of any such material is likely to attract interest and attention and I suspect that, quite apart from ‘radiation’ issues, just crossing the Channel with innocent items from, say, scrapyards or long-term collections could attract (arguably) unwarranted and unwanted attention that could cause grief and inconvenience – if not major problems.

It is certainly a factor which those crossing the Channel must now consider. And it is something that foreign dealers attending are aware of and wary of!

Late last year we travelled by Euro Tunnel from Belgium and got stopped by customs as the Halifax instrument panel we were carrying on board set off the radiation alarms, we missed our train and spent about 30 minutes being quizzed before being sent on our way again. As I understand it, this was not the case until recently, so the European dealers face the possibility of spending hours in the car/van only to be told to turn around and go back home when they get to the trains, the ferry is even worse by all accounts. These radiation detectors are ultra sensitive, maybe more so recently due to all the crank cases blowing things up and chopping off heads!

Yes, I believe the demise of the Whitwick event was just the same; rising costs and falling attendances by stallholders and punters. It just became non-viable as I understand it, but I seem to recall there may have been other problems with continuation of using the venue for that purpose. I’ll ask David Farnsworth when I next speak to him.

The weather is definitely a factor I think (which is totally out of everyone’s hands). The forecast for Saturday was 50% chance of rain which may have put people off in advance and boy it certainly rained at one stage, so if anyone was still sat at home undecided it certainly help to make their minds up. An all in door event would solve the problem one might say but then again this drives prices up. Then again there’s nothing like attending an aerojumble on a nice sunny day and wondering stall to stall in the sunshine with the smell of freshly cut grass. Talking about indoor events what was the reason for the demise of the Whittick aerojumble? Perhaps the same reasons what Andy has listed? A combined event as mentioned above sounds a good way forward no doubt this may be why Newark is so successful. The idea of opening up to a wider range of militaria is also a good idea as there is some cross over here with aviation memorabilia, this would attract more traders and customers (pooling of Resources and collector pools). Anyhow long may the Aerojumble continue in some form or another. For me Popham works well, okay there’s not as many good aerojumble stalls as Shoreham / Brenzett but there’s plenty of other distractions to make up for it, such as wondering around an active airfield looking at the aircraft and the added side shows of vintage cars etc.
Brooklands museum is absolutely dire for aerojumble stalls when they run the event every year combined with the auto jumble but again there’s so much other stuff to see and do it makes the trip worthwhile.

Have been to Brenzett aerojumble from The Netherlands and I was stunned to see that it was very quiet. I was there from 10am to 11.30 am and still very quiet. Lack of stalls and overseas dealers…….. why?? At Shoreham I was there quite a few times but more dealers and also overseas. I know that the old days of an aerojumble is gone but there are still lots of collectors/dealers who would like to dump their bits and pieces so where are they???

I made the 8 hour round trip down to Brenzett for the first time (I never went to Shoreham). I arrived early (just after 8am) and must’ve missed some of the items listed on page 1 (e.g. The spitfire radiator etc.).

I thought the arrangement for arriving on site was a bit lacking, driving in, then parking next to the Vampire to get out of the car and pay, then back in the car and up to the parking area! The volunteers could’ve easily taken payment through you car window as you arrived.

It was nice to meet new people and to have a chat to familiar faces. At least 2 of the dealers were quite vocal on their disappointment and having a haggle was very difficult due to their overall lack of trade.

I did not see any overseas sellers either.

Items of note I saw were the spitfire engine bearers and the large Mark XII wing panel.

I came to the conclusion that it was typical of an event trying to re establish itself, but with the issues identified above making it very difficult. Oh, and I must’ve been one of the youngest there if the average age was over 50! Must give Andy and the folks at Brenzett a pat on the back for effort and perseverance.

Probably my comments are down to the fact i didn’t find any bargains, or come home with a boot full of spit parts!