The Channel Dash,Has any attempt ever been made to recover the Swordfish aircraft?

I wonder if at least one engine has already been recovered by fishermen ? Lets face it, in the 70 or so years sice the dash a few Pegasus may have been brought up, and you’d never know what is was from unless it had some structure AND you some knowledge AND the inclination not to just sell it as scrap

Many Thanks for all the above reply’s and for Simon Brown for giving me the pros and cons of a possible dive.

So it sounds as if it could be dived but would be a major challenge, as previous reply’s have stated the whereabouts of the 6 swordfish would be a challenge in itself. but the Aircraft were just of Calais when they were attacked by the Luftwaffe and Kingsmarine.

Of all the places in the English Channel, the Straits of Dover are some of the most challenging; tidal streams, extended periods of restricted/no visibility and the natural pinch point squeezing shipping into a narrow area. I’m afraid to say the chances of finding anything have not improved…

Except for the apparently forgotten but very important fact that since the majority of the aircrew involved in this tragic exercise died these wrecks would rightly be regarded as war graves.
I am sure more knowing forum members than I can put you right on whether a war grave can knowingly be recovered, improved technology or not.

Agreed. Which is why underwater photography or videography, with its non-invasive approach, is the perfect medium. Everything can remain in-situ.

Hopefully one day with the aid of the ever improving technology and a brave recovery team of divers etc.
that this could be achieved…. Sooner rather than later…..

Except for the apparently forgotten but very important fact that since the majority of the aircrew involved in this tragic exercise died these wrecks would rightly be regarded as war graves.
I am sure more knowing forum members than I can put you right on whether a war grave can knowingly be recovered, improved technology or not.

The challenges begin way before getting in the water. Sidescan sonar can find a fleck of fly crap on the seabed, but just towing a sonar around a random area is just a good way to burn diesel and find nothing. Once found, accurately dropping a line on a small target is a skill and the greater the depth of water the harder it is to miss. I spent 10 minutes following a anchor drag line looking for a submarine in 45m of water…I couldn’t find the sub but had swum pretty much the entire length of the submarine before I realised it was less than 10m from my right shoulder…now consider the size of a radial engine compared to a sub…visibility is severely restricted and just finding the target is a challenge.

Depth also increases the complexity of the dive. Breathing normal air at pressure (5 bar at 40m) makes the nitrogen content of air narcotic and reactions are dulled/slowed…adding helium into the mix reduces the narcotic effect but pushes the cost way up, as well as adding to the time spent decompressing before surfacing…Then there is the issue of the shipping lanes and no diver wishes to be run down by a container vessel. Bottom trawling may well have moved/trashed the remains…

Weather and tidal windows add to the complexity and its not unusual to wait weeks for everything to line up.

So yes, anything can be dived. Would it be easy? No…but if you have a rough idea about where to look then we can consider it as a project.

Many Thanks for all the above reply’s and for Simon Brown for giving me the pros and cons of a possible dive.

So it sounds as if it could be dived but would be a major challenge, as previous reply’s have stated the whereabouts of the 6 swordfish would be a challenge in itself. but the Aircraft were just of Calais when they were attacked by the Luftwaffe and Kingsmarine.but with the strong currents of the English channel the likely hood of any remains would be slim,but who knows as the Pegasus engines alone weigh a fair bit and possibly could of been snagged up on the channels sea bed.

It still amazes me how Leutenant Commander Eugene Esmondes body was recovered from the River Medway at Gillingham, Kent, (near the Strand i Believe) having drifted from near Calais.

Also Nearly two weeks later, the body of Leading Airman W G Smith was found on Upchurch Marshes, close to Gillingham, Kent. in itself shows how far the currents of the channel can carry an object.

But i live in hope that one day that i diver or possibly a trawler may come across any remains of any of the 6 swordfish aircraft, that would produce some kind of relic to help to tell the story of the heroism and bravery of the 18 Airman, of the Fleet Air arms suicide mission on the 12th February 1942.

Hopefully one day with the aid of the ever improving technology and a brave recovery team of divers etc.
that this could be achieved…. Sooner rather than later…..

The challenges begin way before getting in the water. Sidescan sonar can find a fleck of fly crap on the seabed, but just towing a sonar around a random area is just a good way to burn diesel and find nothing. Once found, accurately dropping a line on a small target is a skill and the greater the depth of water the harder it is to miss. I spent 10 minutes following a anchor drag line looking for a submarine in 45m of water…I couldn’t find the sub but had swum pretty much the entire length of the submarine before I realised it was less than 10m from my right shoulder…now consider the size of a radial engine compared to a sub…visibility is severely restricted and just finding the target is a challenge.

Depth also increases the complexity of the dive. Breathing normal air at pressure (5 bar at 40m) makes the nitrogen content of air narcotic and reactions are dulled/slowed…adding helium into the mix reduces the narcotic effect but pushes the cost way up, as well as adding to the time spent decompressing before surfacing…Then there is the issue of the shipping lanes and no diver wishes to be run down by a container vessel. Bottom trawling may well have moved/trashed the remains…

Weather and tidal windows add to the complexity and its not unusual to wait weeks for everything to line up.

So yes, anything can be dived. Would it be easy? No…but if you have a rough idea about where to look then we can consider it as a project.

If you are looking for channel dash aircraft if you find any remains of the seven whirlwinds lost during this **** up please,please let us know we would love to be involved.

Mike E

www.whirlwindfighterproject.org

Again im not a diver so wouldn’t know if it could be attempted depth etc, also the Laws on a dive of this type could possibly open up a big can of worms legally.(also the very slightly busy shipping lanes would cause havoc.)

The challenges begin way before getting in the water. Sidescan sonar can find a fleck of fly crap on the seabed, but just towing a sonar around a random area is just a good way to burn diesel and find nothing. Once found, accurately dropping a line on a small target is a skill and the greater the depth of water the harder it is to miss. I spent 10 minutes following a anchor drag line looking for a submarine in 45m of water…I couldn’t find the sub but had swum pretty much the entire length of the submarine before I realised it was less than 10m from my right shoulder…now consider the size of a radial engine compared to a sub…visibility is severely restricted and just finding the target is a challenge.

Depth also increases the complexity of the dive. Breathing normal air at pressure (5 bar at 40m) makes the nitrogen content of air narcotic and reactions are dulled/slowed…adding helium into the mix reduces the narcotic effect but pushes the cost way up, as well as adding to the time spent decompressing before surfacing…Then there is the issue of the shipping lanes and no diver wishes to be run down by a container vessel. Bottom trawling may well have moved/trashed the remains…

Weather and tidal windows add to the complexity and its not unusual to wait weeks for everything to line up.

So yes, anything can be dived. Would it be easy? No…but if you have a rough idea about where to look then we can consider it as a project.

When they found the wreck of the Ark Royal there were several Swordfish scattered on the sea bed. They were in reletively good condition except for canvas.
Obviously a lot deeper and protected from currents than in the channel, but they had survived.

It’s worth remembering that the Channel is basically a river, the continuation of the Thames and the Rhine (plus a few others) on their way to the Atlantic. Much of the remains will have been swept out if not trapped in quieter backwaters or soft sediment.

Surely these aircraft would be regarded as war graves, if they were to remain intact in any way?

And as to the idea that any Swordfish remains in the Channel dash area must be these aircraft, this was not the only occasion that Swordfish operated in the Channel area; they covered Dunkirk in 1940, laid smokescreens to help hide the Normandy landings, and were involved in the suppression of E-boats and mini subs in 1944 and 45.

This is what i indere on these forums you learn from people like yourself the importance of every part of the ongoing stories of the Channel dash and the War effort performed by the likes of the Swordfish Aircraft and the Airman who gave there own story to the cause.

Surely these aircraft would be regarded as war graves, if they were to remain intact in any way?

And as to the idea that any Swordfish remains in the Channel dash area must be these aircraft, this was not the only occasion that Swordfish operated in the Channel area; they covered Dunkirk in 1940, laid smokescreens to help hide the Normandy landings, and were involved in the suppression of E-boats and mini subs in 1944 and 45.

Very welcome. Have you read Run the Gauntlet? About the whole German operation as well as Fuller.

Cheers

Near the old custom house in the harbour.

Hawker – if you haven’t seen them, there is a fine memorial at Ramsgate and a good exhibit at the Manston Spitfire and Hurricane Museum. And this is a good website with several interesting links.

http://www.channeldash.org/

Thank you Charliehunt, Ive done the Manston Museum as you say a great exhibit,haven’t seen the Ramsgate memorial,where exactly is it as i would like to pay a visit next time im there.
Cheers.

TBH, I doubt anything would be left, engine maybe but not much more.

Hawker – if you haven’t seen them, there is a fine memorial at Ramsgate and a good exhibit at the Manston Spitfire and Hurricane Museum. And this is a good website with several interesting links.

http://www.channeldash.org/

A friend of mine has just returned from a dive on the wreck of a Cirrus that went down mid-way across the English Channel during the early part of this year.

All the usual tools and aids were employed during the diving operation. I understand that the purpose was to establish whether the ballistic parachute had been used and whether the pilot was still with the aircraft.

The questioner (above) asks whether any of the attacking Swordfish – or, parts thereof would still exist. The answer, regrettably, has to be no. This is due to the activities of trawling fishng vessels. Once, as in the case of the Cirrus, they have criss-crossed the area, aircraft especially, are dismembered and scattered.

Thanks John for your reply, just read about the Cirrus another tragedy claimed by the English Channel.

A friend of mine has just returned from a dive on the wreck of a Cirrus that went down mid-way across the English Channel during the early part of this year.

All the usual tools and aids were employed during the diving operation. I understand that the purpose was to establish whether the ballistic parachute had been used and whether the pilot was still with the aircraft.

The questioner (above) asks whether any of the attacking Swordfish – or, parts thereof would still exist. The answer, regrettably, has to be no. This is due to the activities of trawling fishng vessels. Once, as in the case of the Cirrus, they have criss-crossed the area, aircraft especially, are dismembered and scattered.