The death knell for many UK aviation events?

This years Sywell airshow is cancelled because of the increased charges.

The CAA has its own view:

http://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-statement-on-air-show-charges-consultation/

I understand it is the charges that are billed after the airshow that are really a pain in the backside.

Only about 210 consultations have already been sent to the CAA as of today.
Not enough… 🙁
Get writing in the weekend! :eagerness:

The CAA has its own view:

http://www.caa.co.uk/News/CAA-statement-on-air-show-charges-consultation/

Surely a few pounds on a ticket would not reduce attendances by much? Apart from enthusiasts most would attend only a few air shows annually.
Compared to football the air displays are great value http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/ticket-prices-how-much-does-it-cost-to-watch-your-team-a6694486.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-cambridgeshire-35542860

One of the organisers of The Little Gransden Air and Car Show has warned that this year’s event on 28 August could be their last.

Little Gransden air and car show 2015
Chris Hall
Dave Polie says a rise in insurance costs and flying permits means they’re paying out about £9,000 just in fees.

He said: “We don’t want to increase prices but we must make sure we’re covering our costs.”

No further comment needed.

http://www.canterburytimes.co.uk/New-fees-huge-threat-Herne-Bay-Air-s-future/story-28684004-detail/story.html

Sound like turkeys voting for Christmas to me.

Yes indeed… :stupid: :rolleyes: Unbelievable…

http://www.wymondhamandattleboroughmercury.co.uk/news/airfields_in_norfolk_back_possible_changes_to_air_display_costs_in_wake_of_shoreham_disaster_1_4410272

While some have accused the CAA of ringing the death knell for airshows,

…sounds familiar… :rolleyes:

Also read that CAA spokesman’s comments…

Duxford?

A spokesperson for the Imperial War Museum Duxford said they could not comment on the changes until the consultation period ends on February 29.

I really do hope that behind the scenes, out of the public view, they are really actively protesting.

The Eastern Daily Press yesterday published a full page article titled ‘Airfields back changes to costs to keep skies safe’ in which the airfield manager of Old Buckenham, and ‘a spokesman’ from Seething expressed support for the proposed charges.
Old Buckenham’s airfield manager was reported as saying that the increases would be worthwhile if the industry is made safer, although there is no mention of how pouring more money into the hands of the CAA will achieve this.
Sound like turkeys voting for Christmas to me.

Bridgnorth Wings & Wheels Cancelled

THIS EVENT IS NOW CANCELLED. Owing to the Express and Star and the Shropshire Star using the words ‘Air Show’ in their report of the new venue the local villagers have been in uproar, and Roy, who, naturally, does not wish to upset his neighbours has cancelled. The event never was an ‘Air Show’ not even a Fly-in, we would have had a handful of invited light aircraft owners land, and that is all. The event was planned more on the scale of a large village Fete, but now this is not to be, and the charities involved will have to look elsewhere to raise money.

facebook.com/Bridgnorth-Wings-Wheels-

Brian

[QUOTE=plough;2292192

I think some event organisers and aeroplane operators will use the changes as a convenient excuse for packing up their involvement, but I would hazard a guess that there will probably be other more significant reasons for the disappearance of some airshows (and aircraft operators) which will have more to do with the way their enterprises are run (we’ve seen two prominent organisations come to the end of their time recently, and it was pretty obvious that their problems were principally self-inflicted).

I think we will perhaps look back on 2015/16 in years to come, and wonder what all the fuss was about?[/QUOTE]

That’s probably true and it may well be that increased insurance premiums will have a greater effect than increased CAA charges. In any case I think and hope that there may be a degree of truth in your last sentence. Time will tell.

A quick tally shows that UK League football attendance last season (excluding non-league, the Scottish lower divisions and Northern Ireland) was over 33 million. That means the total, when all attendances at games from pub leagues up to Internationals is added in probably tops 50 million.

The difference is that figures for the number of tickets sold for football will include a great many to people who will attend a number of matches over the course of the season – there are a lot who will attend every match of their favourite club, so there will be a lot less than 50 million people involved . Whilst there are a small core of aviation enthusiasts who will attend several airshows each year, I would suggest that the vast majority of airshow spectators will only visit one, so the number of tickets sold will be much closer to the actual number of individuals who attend an airshow.

Whilst it is 18 months since the last Waddington, their last few shows sold out to maximum permitted capacity, and the last one had to be pre-purchased ticket only. Other shows are similarly attended to capacity (or near to capacity). Other shows have seen similar levels of attendance.

I think the popularity of airshows amongst the general non-aviation nut public is sufficient that most airshows (certainly the larger ones) could withstand a fairly significant increase in entry charges to cover the increased costs – the current charges are pretty small when compared with the entry fees for other popular events such as music concerts (£50+ per ticket is not unusual, and you probably only get a couple of hours entertainment if you’re lucky), and major sporting events (football included). Even at £30+ a ticket, airshows can still make a relatively cheap family day out and would still compare favourably with some alternative attractions (for example, a pre-booked ticket for a family of four going to Alton Towers for a day out will set them back over £130, and that would cost about £175 at the gate if not pre-booked).

It only seems to be a small core of ‘aviation enthusiasts’ who moan and whinge about the ticket prices 😉

My own view is that much of the CAA proposals are designed to give an impression of activity whilst keeping it all within sustainable boundaries which the airshow industry can absorb. By tightening up training and certification (which was probably necessary irrespective of the unfortunate events last summer), the extra costs involved and extra charges imposed should be within a proportion which efficiently run events should be able to absorb or cover with a fairly small increase in entry fees. The CAA have almost certainly factored in some leeway to allow themselves to appear to be backing down in response to the protestations of the airshow community (which they will have expected).

I think some event organisers and aeroplane operators will use the changes as a convenient excuse for packing up their involvement, but I would hazard a guess that there will probably be other more significant reasons for the disappearance of some airshows (and aircraft operators) which will have more to do with the way their enterprises are run (we’ve seen two prominent organisations come to the end of their time recently, and it was pretty obvious that their problems were principally self-inflicted).

I think we will perhaps look back on 2015/16 in years to come, and wonder what all the fuss was about?

Just pray there is never a warbird accident on the scale of the one a Reno a few years ago. That would probably lead to the banning displays altogether…

If anything the Shoreham accident was on a larger scale than Reno. Whilst the casualty toll is comparable, at Shoreham they were passers-by on a public highway rather than paying spectators at an event where some level of risk is assumed.

Are your estimates for the costs recovery evidence based? If so, what was that evidence, is it publicly available and if not, why not?

Have you made a study of the potential impact on the viability of future air shows? If you have, is this study publicly available and if not, why not?

Has there been any external analysis of the costs of the extra regulatory burden? If not, why not?

Emphasis added
In short, probably not.

Their job is to protect the politicians from public/media outrage if a similar accident were to happen again.
They would be quite happy if flying displays any more “dangerous” than Shuttleworth and BoBMF flybys were banned altogether.
In the wake of a disaster it’s CYA-mode…they’re covering theirs and thus their political bosses. Any benefit to the public, or the destruction of an industry/hobby is incidental.

Frankly, I’m surprised they haven’t banned civil jet fighter flying altogether.
Just pray there is never a warbird accident on the scale of the one a Reno a few years ago. That would probably lead to the banning displays altogether…with the exception of Spitfires, they’re far too historic/iconic to ban.

Sorry to sound cynical, but the public demands ” ‘elf and safety” guarentees whether they’re needed or not.

Up to 107 responses on the caa website just added mine.

The document in question can no longer be accessed by the link in the original post. And I can’t find it on their website. Is this significant I wonder?

Was it this one?

http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/docs/33/statutory%20charges%20GA%20V2.pdf :confused:
as found thru
https://www.caa.co.uk/Our-work/Consultations/Open/Statutory-air-display-and-low-flying-permission-charges/
and
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=7212

These links seem to work now. Indeed they did not seem to work earlier.

But I have heeded your “warning” and saved this document on my desktop. :eagerness:

Perhaps others should do the same, you never know if it somehow “disappears”… :rolleyes:

Only about sixty people have used
http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=58
so far.
Can this total be brought up to at least one hundred by the end of this weekend ?

The document in question can no longer be accessed by the link in the original post. And I can’t find it on their website. Is this significant I wonder?

It was something quoted by David Learmount:

“Learmount said that pilots take calculated risks at airshows because that is what people want to see. “Airshows are the biggest spectator sport in this country – more people go live to airshows than go to football.”

I am not sure if he was the first to suggest this, but his quote dates from just post-Shoreham. And I am only posting what he said – not agreeing with any of it!

Palpable nonsense. A quick tally shows that UK League football attendance last season (excluding non-league, the Scottish lower divisions and Northern Ireland) was over 33 million. That means the total, when all attendances at games from pub leagues up to Internationals is added in probably tops 50 million. I don’t think even the most ardent airshow advocate could claim the same for airshows with any degree of credibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_attendance_figures_at_domestic_professional_sports_leagues

It was something quoted by David Learmount:

“Learmount said that pilots take calculated risks at airshows because that is what people want to see. “Airshows are the biggest spectator sport in this country – more people go live to airshows than go to football.”

I am not sure if he was the first to suggest this, but his quote dates from just post-Shoreham. And I am only posting what he said – not agreeing with any of it!

Minority sport?! You perhaps missed the memo that said airshows are the second most popular outdoor attraction in the UK. The first is football.

It’s an interesting claim, oft repeated, and one that I’ve seen no actual figures to back up. I think it came originally from an airshow commentator but stand to be corrected on that.

I suspect that if true figures were found live music would almost certainly feature well above airshows in terms of spectator numbers. Possibly sports such as rugby and cricket as well, maybe motorsport too.

Regardless, it is going to be a hard sell to the general public these days. 20 years ago many non-aviation folk I know made the annual trip to Mildenhall, at a tenner a carload it made a cheap family day out. I suspect most of them don’t visit any airshows now. With the demise of the big military shows that attracted many casual local visitors at reasonable cost, airshows have become much more of a specialist enthusiast pastime over the past 20 or so years.

Therefore we all need to do our bit. I’ve replied to the CAA consultation document and written to my MP. I wonder how many posting on here have done the same. I’ve also signed the online petition, although I’m frankly skeptical that these things have any effect whatsoever on Government policy.

And what percentage – if I may ask – of the UK voting population is actually involved in going to, officiating at, and/or flying/maintaining/paying-for airshows? Miniscule is the answer. There is NOT “a very significant industry”. Therefore, it is a minority sport. So there is no overweening need to keep any of them in existence. Would save an awful lot of needlessly spent money. One could, possibly, exempt RIAT and Farnborough? They are, after all, not airshows but corporate bunfests where manufacturers and/or bankers try to flog NEW aircraft, as opposed to displaying OLD aircraft. And I speak as one who did a significant number of the very early IATs at Greenham (working 18-20 hr days/nights!).
HTH – but I know it won’t because minds that are already made up are not susceptible to reality!
Resmoroh

32,000+ people bowled up to Goodwood on a Tuesday morning in dogsh*t weather to see Spitfires and Hurricanes take off and fly away. Thousands turned out across the country to watch the Vulcan fly past once. Duxford sold out. Twice. Many other shows sold out. The appetite for aviation is still going strong.

I’d suggest you consider a reality check of your own.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to book me some Duxford tickets before the minority who don’t give a crap buy all the tickets to watch vintage aeroplanes needlessly flown around for our viewing pleasure at great cost. Cheeky ******s; misguided, all.