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Re: Boulton Paul Overstand

Originally posted by Seafuryfan
Damien, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe there was actually such a thing as a Boulton Paul Overstand – although it wasn’t actually an aircraft.

Apparently, during the 1930s Boulton Paul employed some rather attractive ‘dancing girls’ to assist in their product promotion at various trade fairs around the world. These dancing girls (known as ‘The Boultonettes’)had a very organised routine which involved a number of coreographed moves which were orchestrated by a certain Rose ‘Old Lady’ Grady. Rose ran a pretty tight ship which enabled some stunning routines to be ran in front of the assembled media.

Er…

Does this new site have any pictures of the Boultonettes? I have long heard roumours of their existence, in fact Alfred Prce in his book of major aviation oversights holds that their practices in the Wolverhampton factory lead to the chief designer of the Defiant totally forgetting to include the four, forward firing 30mm cannon from his design.

So, if there are any candids of them please let me know and I’ll hire somebody to take the entrance exam for me.

Thanks,

Moggy

Boulton Paul Overstand

Damien, correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe there was actually such a thing as a Boulton Paul Overstand – although it wasn’t actually an aircraft.

Apparently, during the 1930s Boulton Paul employed some rather attractive ‘dancing girls’ to assist in their product promotion at various trade fairs around the world. These dancing girls (known as ‘The Boultonettes’)had a very organised routine which involved a number of coreographed moves which were orchestrated by a certain Rose ‘Old Lady’ Grady. Rose ran a pretty tight ship which enabled some stunning routines to be ran in front of the assembled media.

A highlight of the routine was the Overstand (they didn’t want to call it ‘Overstrand’ in case people got the wrong impression), during which the girls performed hand-stands ON TOP of each other, to form a pyramid – an act which required truly great gymnastical prowess. The icing on the cake was the waving of the Boulton Paul emblem in the form of the company flag, which was waved by the girl on the top of the pyramid.

Although very attractive to watch, debates continue to this day as to the value of such routines in the selling of aeroplanes. Thank goodness they were not hampered by the politically correct times in which we now live! 🙂

This information was gleaned from “A History of Gymnastic Teams Associated with Aircraft Manufacturers” by Liverstone & Aldridge (P. 1969)

Hi Damien,

I was about to say to you that you were a bloody fool or something along those lines for not knowing what a Boulton Paul Overstrand was but please accept my most humble apologies I read the post properly and see what you meant.

Regards Merlin

😀

Hmm dont know what to think really but heres my bit

Maybe I was a bit quick in slating your website without seeing the rest of it first, but it would have been nice to have seen a website instead of the recruitment page. I dont think your site will get much attention until it is online properly. My aim with my website is to give people something to look at straight away. Thats why I designed the first 4 pages and then added a simple index page and from that I received more and more info. To think that your going to research all the material and then go live is nonsense there is always something else that comes up regarding an aircraft or an ace that you did not already know.

I actually like the format of your site and the webmaster of our newly formed group is writing something similar for us. But we already have a website packed with info and I have my own personal website as well. I would like to see the content of your site online and those links that have nothing in the database yet should be left blank. That way people would come and look at your website and think I would like to be part of that group. But at the moment all people see is a badgering recruitment page with little or no actual information instead of seeing the well designed but half finished website that you already have.

Perhaps if people were able to see the good work you and your team have already done they would want to contribute to the information already on then site or write a new profile for an aircraft or an ace.

If I had more time to myself and was a good reader then I probably would join your group if i came up to scratch but I have two groups to work with at the moment and am a member of a few others that I lead a less active roll in.

I research Aviation in the East of Scotland area and I dont limit myself to one particular type but anything in this area. Also I research and dig aircraft crash sites so my time is in short supply.

But I think we will all have to wait for your site to become active to view your work and perhaps then you might recruit new members with good content.

It seems slightly ironic about you talking about grammar and spelling as the men you research were pretty bad at those things as a whole. If you read any combat report or accident form they are full of mistakes and english errors. Not trying to get at you but just a little humorous point.

Just get some content on the website thats all.

I do agree with the others on some points they have made and I agree more with what Ashley said than I do the rest. She always seems to make more sense than the rest of us.

Hi Kev,

It just gets worse doesn’t it? You say that we are being rash if we consider your site elitist, but every word written there seems to imply that your organisation are the only people worthy of producing a quality, in-depth website. You remember your comment about ‘crap’ on the net?

First of all you haven’t nearly read every word on the website (that’d take you days seriously!) And it is silly to believe that there are no good websites, of course there are good ones (this one, the warbird resource group etc.) But there are very few websites that cover warbirds, aces and background information combined with the power of forums. Yet have reliable information. Prove me wrong.

Then you say that as the webmaster you are not responsible? Does that mean you don’t have to achieve the high standards your organisation requires?

If you had read the recruitment page on our website more carefully you would have noticed that the criteria we are talking about are for RESEARCHERS. It is important that someone who writes articles on a regular basis writes well. If I write an article I’ll always have it checked by an editor. Honestly I don’t consider myself as an outstanding writer, moderate more like, but don’t tell anyone ;).

Just because someone has problems spelling or with grammar does not mean that they are incapable of providing excellent information.

Frankly I totally agree with you! Guess what, I’ll discuss the whole thing with our “team” because, although I’m a bit stubborn sometimes, I do think that you are right, and you have made your point. The recruitment page is bad, maybe even evil. Which, of course, may lead to people getting a wrong impression (just a feeling). So I’ll have the person responsible for the text sacked 😀 (that’s a joke )

Do we have to wait that long? 😉

Uhm yes. We have about 110 (different) fighters in our database and nearly 300 aces and they all have to be checked and some need more research. It depends largely on how fast we work, but it will take at least one more month. Sorry.

Kind Regards,

Frederick

Kmar.

“Now I understand that we may seem “elitist”, but that my friends, is based on only one single post and therefore a bit rash.

I know that many contributors do not have English as their mother tongue, that includes me, but I must say that I am the webmaster of the-few, which means that I am responsible for the programming – not the content. So don’t attack me on my English usage.”

It just gets worse doesn’t it? You say that we are being rash
if we consider your site elitist, but every word written there seems to imply that your organisation are the only people worthy of producing a quality, in-depth website. You remember your comment about ‘crap’ on the net?

Then you say that as the webmaster you are not responsible? Does that mean you don’t have to achieve the high standards your organisation requires? Just because someone has problems spelling or with grammar does not mean that they are incapable of providing excellent information.

“Anyway I’ll let you know when the website is ready so you can have a thorough look at it. Once you have done this, you may hit me.”

Do we have to wait that long?;)

I look forward to you proving me wrong.

Regards,

kev35

It was never my intention to harass anyone. Suggesting that the lot of you aren’t passionate was not my aim, but you must agree with me that the tone of the response to my first post is a bit hostile (no offence).

You (the people that responded to my post) imply that the “the-few” website is not up to scratch or even deny the quality of it, even though you have not been able to take a proper look at it. Now I understand that we may seem “elitist”, but that my friends, is based on only one single post and therefore a bit rash.

I know that many contributors do not have English as their mother tongue, that includes me, but I must say that I am the webmaster of the-few, which means that I am responsible for the programming – not the content. So don’t attack me on my English usage.

Bill Gunston, hmm what can I say, you’ll probably won’t believe me if I tell you it’s a typo will you?

But for your inner peace I’ll apologize for anything that bothers you (the users of this forum). This was never my intention. The reason I posted to this forum in the first place was that it seems to attract people, warbird enthusiast, that know what they are talking about. Which is a compliment.

Anyway I’ll let you know when the website is ready so you can have a thorough look at it. Once you have done this, you may hit me.

Kind Regards,

Frederick

Kev and Snapper have said it all really, I could not have put it better myself.

But I would just like to add something…kmar, you want to create “a valuable resource for every warbird enthusiast” (your exact words), which implies that the Flypast forum is the exact opposite of that…well I think you’ll find that the Key Publishing’s aviation boards are a valuable resource for every warbird enthusiast – we are a varied bunch of people from all walks of life, and many of us here myself included, work in aviation, work in Museums, operate, maintain and restore warbirds, work for various aviation publications, etc etc…then there are the enthusiasts who read and read and read, study, carry out thorough detailed research for themselves and for other people, spends hours visiting museums, archives, former airfield sites, plus we have a number of excellent photographers who take publication worthy photographs…I could go on…

The point I am making is that we share our knowledge, experience and enthusiasm with each other, providing assistance where we can…now that makes us a valuable resource for every warbird enthusiast in my opinion…

To me your site seems to have a lot more style than substance, and the content it doesn’t seem fresh in the least. Just my opinion though. i shall give it another look when it is finished though. If you’d like to let us all know 🙂

best regards, steve

Kmar.

If you read properly you will see that the flypast forum is indeed a huge resource. In the 16 months during which I have been a member of the forum I have received a great deal of help from other members and in turn helped others. On no occasion has money changed hands. To suggest that the people using this forum aren’t passionate or do not care about this field of aviation is disingenuous to say the least. A comment like that will only lessen your chances of recruiting members.

An important point about grammar etc. Many contributors do not have English as their first language, others may be dyslexic, or have other problems. Don’t want to worry you too much but there are female contributors as well. You obviously want to exclude those people from your group. You should perhaps take your own advice as there are several mistakes in your last post but we won’t hold that against you. Trying to recruit people to your group by saying half of what you read is crap also seems a strange way of going about things. The author’s name you refer to is Gunston. The ‘n’ is neither silent nor invisible.

Read through the flypast forum archive and see just how much information is there, where the contributors come from and the responses they receive. Find me one single post where anyone has asked for money in exchange for information.

The advertisement you have decided to use to try to recruit contributors comes across as elitist and possibly something even more sinister. It is something I would not wish to be associated with.

Regards,

kev35

Well let me start off by saying that the site is still under construction and that I cannot show you any work at this moment. So you’ll just have to trust me that it is above “average”. You all have searched that web for warbirds, and the first thing one notices is that half of it is crap and the other half is stuffed with ads. We at the-few have decided to make a website which provides complete, correct and detailed information on warbirds, aces and backgrounds. We try to distinguish by, as said before, detailed and correct profiles but also correct grammar. For reading ease is important. Now I am aware of the fact that our “criteria” might seem a bit high but this has a reason. In the past we allowed everyone to supply things they had written. Nonetheless every single piece of writing that was “handed in” had to be checked for correctness and grammar by one of our editors. This did not only take a lot of time but also proved that many works where incorrect, or partly correct. But even more were of very poor grammar, now everyone makes a mistake sometimes, but these writings were literally packed with errors. As a result our editors had to rewrite the whole thing.

We strive to have a website of high quality. If you open a warbird book, by Bill Guston for example, you expect it to be correct and pleasant to read, don’t you? The same goes for a website. We do out utmost to measure up with high quality books. Second comes the ad thing. We have decided that we will not have any ads on the site because they are annoying.

As I said before, at this very moment I cannot show any work, unless of course you join the team 😀 But the more people help building the website the quicker the site will be ready for launch. But if you guys are too busy doing research on aircraft (and maybe aces) for big sums of money, keep on doing that. We just try to be a valuable resource for every warbird enthusiast; we do it because we like it, not because we want to be paid for it.

Hi, Snapper.

“Glad I missed the 11 plus – how the hell do you do algebra whilst jumping through hoops?”

Why do you think I need crutches?

Regards,

kev35

Go on Kev! Jump through a hoop on Saturday at Hendon. If you’re good at it, i’ll sell the DVD.

Glad I missed the 11 plus – how the hell do you do algebra whilst jumping through hoops?

Kmar.

I think I have to be in Snapper’s camp on this one. You tell visitors to your site that they have high standards to meet for acceptance but like others have said you offer nothing in return. I’m not talking about money, but, as has already been said, where are the examples of acceptable work to measure ourselves against?

Many of us on flypast are involved in various research projects and freely share information with, and help and support each other. We expect nothing in return.I can’t see any evidence of that from ‘the-few.’

Personally, I think I’ll stick with the people I trust, where standards of grammar and literacy are secondary to the quality and quantity of information shared.

Unless, of course, you’d care to prove me wrong?

BTW the last entrance exam I sat was my eleven plus, I don’t jump through hoops any more.

Regards,

kev35

No, it doesn’t seem to be. Unless, that is, you are concerned over whether you should supply articles to a site with absolutely nothing to say for itself, and with no ‘copy’ to measure against. I for one wouldn’t dream of donating heavily researched ‘detailed, in depth’ articles which could net me hard cash from aviation / other press publications to a site that has no evidence of its worth, for nothing whatsoever.

However, if I was wanting to build a site from nothing, into an authority on warbirds that would be visited heavily (and attract a decent income from advertisers) I would probably attempt to get free copy from experts who are flattered enough / gullible enough to let me use them.

I’ll tell you what, why don’t you send me your car, and i’ll drive it around for evermore, if it passes my selection criteria. Fair?

Possible, but it’s not really important is it?

Hmmm…never heard of that either!

Probles solved! Take a sneak preview!

Actually we just started taking things apart to redo some sections which led to more stuff needing to be changed which created a few problems with other sections. So rather than have half the site working at any given time while the other half was a tangled mess of loose wires, drywall dust and lightswitches that were not connected to anything, it was just easier to disable the entire site while the repairs are made. Hopefully, things will be back to normal soon.

But if you like you can have a sneak preview, to seen the aces, warbirds and articles go here:

http://www.the-few.com/resources.asp

To see the forum:

http://www.the-few.com/forum.asp

To send an e-card:

http://www.the-few.com/ecards.asp

To see the topsite list:

http://www.the-few.com/topsite.asp

Please note that these sections are still under construction! You need to register in order to post to the forums or to view complete profiles and articles. We are still testing the registrartion system so please DO NOT signup now. If you want to be notified when the site is ready just drop me a line: [EMAIL=frederick@the-few.com]Frederick Kloezeman[/EMAIL].
The E-Cards feature works fine, and you don’t need to register for that so feel free to send some E-Cards.

Someone asked what the pay is; the website is non-profit, so free to use (no registration fee or anything) as a result all our editors work on a voluntary basis.

It is quite likely that you haven’t heard about THE-FEW. For the simple reason that we changed our name. Until about a year ago we were the Famous-Fighters Corporation. And besides that the website has been closed for the public for about a year for the above reason.

Well that concludes my story.

Kind Regards,

Frederick Kloezeman

Not much content of anything just waffles on about a few things and pops up join the team at the title. Not very good website but I am willing to be proved wrong.

Merlin