The final flight of the Vimy.

Is the benefits of having it outside somewhat negated by the corrosion it is suffering out in the rain??

RE: The Viking.

The Brooklands Viking has been outside now for some time which is great shame considering all of the good work that was put into the restoration of the aircraft whilst it was in the corner of the ‘Finishing Straight’ hangar.

Actually having the Viking outside has actually allowed a great deal of restoration work to be carried out that would not have been possible inside the confined space of the hangar.

As this work progresses, this should enable the wings to be permanently refitted.

Does anyone know if Brooklands will be searching for a pair of original engines to fit in? – although this would, presumably, affect it’s “kept in flying condition” status.

Roger Smith.

The aircraft had achieved for it’s owners what they wanted – the aircraft was made available and Brooklands acquired it. I should imagine if anyone with a serious interest had approached the original owners with a proposal to carry on flying her she still would be!

Yes, its a question of ability, initiative, knowledge and money and that leads to the rhetorical question is did/does Brooklands have enough of those to to keep the aeroplane flying?

Anyhow, its a about 20 year old replica, so lets not get too worked up about it. I guess the question is can it ever be rescued form being an entombed static and bought back to flying at some point in the future – likely answer is possibly but unlikely. One hopes that it will be looked after well at Brooklands as a static.

cheers

The aircraft had achieved for it’s owners what they wanted – the aircraft was made available and Brooklands acquired it. I should imagine if anyone with a serious interest had approached the original owners with a proposal to carry on flying her she still would be!

What a shame. For an aircraft that’s not very old, and unique and highly educational, grounding it is a poor choice.

Could not agree more with you.

and…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PFH6e6sArE

Re;

I’m just grateful for the pleasure of seeing it over the years. Enjoy this…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7mkUVcZPSFU

Things didnt look so rosy a few years back, when BMW started being twats about the engines. Somebody must know more?

Interesting points JDK – How I view the Vimy’s importance is more as social artifact rather than an aviation one. It reflects the power of the media to recreate events for our enjoyment -something which is very much of our time.
To me the reproduction belongs in the Smithsonian as an example of what can be recreated rather than a serious research tool.
Whilst Brooklands certainly can house her – to me with a genuine Vimy and very good replica within a short distance it’s maybe a case of coals to Newcastle . The U.S continent to me should be her home -she was built there and effectively the types greatest claim to fame is bridging the gap that divides the two continents .

John,
Tempting though it is to generalise about nations, I’m wary of doing so too broadly or easily – I’ve been surprised too often by ‘national’ attitudes to place bets on them either. 😉

Dear Chitts,
Can you elaborate on the ‘minor’ nature of those required mods? They weren’t, IIRC, reported as such at the time, and its notable that no-one else has undertaken those requirements and filled that ‘gap in the market’. I appreciate of course that the full story not to mention the profitability of the offer is arguable and not always laid out – however pleasure flights in equivalent aircraft are available in parts of Europe, as well as elsewhere in the world. One must then at least wonder what the restrictive factor is in the UK specifically.

As touched on by John Boyle, in the case of an attitude difference between the CAA and the FAA arguably reflecting national attitudes, the FAA is mandated to promote aviation in its diversity – and is held to it by the EAA. Jokes aside about what CAA stands for, they certainly don’t foster aviation any more than the UK’s splintered advocacy groups have forced them to – and currently they are reducing, not growing what flying goes on.

My understanding of historic aviation is that something is part of history . Recreating history isn’t history itself . When you see people dressed up at Duxford in uniform – they are recreating history -what they do isn’t historic . Similarily the Vimy is recreating a period of history – that isn’t historic in itself . Whilst the Vimy has certainly been successful as an operating machine – I would be agast if anyone who has operated this machine thinks they are as worthy a place in history as the likes of Alcock and Brown.

Anything in the past that’s documented is history, David. While some may still regard ‘proper’ history as kings, battles and other such things, today there is generally a recognition of the diversity of history. The very story of preservation in the UK, as outlined by Alec Brew’s book Vampires and Fleas for instance, is ‘history’ of a kind. While the actions of the replica builders and re-enactors is but one aspect of that history, it is still part of the story. Their significance in history is how they vary from the original which tells us a lot about the re-enactors or builders’ period attitudes, taboos and so forth.

Obviously one must distinguish between the the original event and other people’s subsequent recreations of that event, but history is filled with such ‘replays’ – from ‘sea battles’ carried out in Roman Amphitheatres to Shakespeare’s history plays and the idea of the Renaissance itself being in part the ‘reuse’ of the wisdom of the ancients. Those interpretations, like the choices made by the people in aviation preservation, tell us a lot more than they realise about the politics, mores and attitudes of their time.

The flights of the Vimy replica are a matter of historical fact, however much one might debate their importance. I don’t think anyone would suggest they are greater than- or as important as- the original flights they commemorated, but that status isn’t up to you or me anyway.

Regards,

RE: The Viking.

The Brooklands Viking has been outside now for some time which is great shame considering all of the good work that was put into the restoration of the aircraft whilst it was in the corner of the ‘Finishing Straight’ hangar.

RE: The Vimy.

I was very sad to see the Vimy grounded on Sunday. I had originally hoped that the aircraft could be operated from Brooklands on a regular basis but realistically there are many factors against keeping the aircraft airworthy. The owner/s of the Vimy may have requested or even stipulated that the aircraft be retired after its donation to the museum.

Firstly the cost of achieving a suitable CAA permit to fly, I’m guessing this was explored but was considered to be an incredibly expensive option which no doubt involve incredible amounts of paper and would probably mean that Vimy would be almost be completely ripped apart.

Secondly the not inconsiderable costs of operation; maintenance, fuel and lubricants, parts and insurance etc. I doubt very much that the coffers at Brooklands are over flowing to extant that they can bank roll the aircraft indefinitely without some sort of sponsorship or support club.

Thirdly, if the aircraft was to be flown on a regular basis, Brooklands would need a properly prepared grass strip with permanent access to the museum site and hangar, equipped to enable routine maintenance and servicing to be carried out on site. The grass strip used on Sunday is part of the Mercedes World complex and is terribly uneven and not really ideal for regular operation in its current position and condition. Another major problem is the access to the strip, currently there is no where on the grass strip where the Vimy can cross to museum site without being dismantled.

These problems could all be over come but it would be incredibly expensive and time consuming to achieve.

Ideally I would have liked to see the Vimy hangared at Old Warden on behalf of the Brooklands Museum in much the same way that happened during this Summer at Duxford. But I guess this option would have been explored at some point earlier in its operation in the UK.

So in some ways the decision to display the Vimy at Brooklands in a ground running ‘active’ condition is the right one, it is key attraction for the museum which will no doubt help them achieve their goal in relocating and restoring the hangar.

Lastly the airframe itself has earned its own rightful place in the history of aviation, the fact that its a Vickers Vimy is almost incidental.

PS.

Many thanks for all the kind photo comments.

Septic.

Amazingly I can say that I don’t get this !

‘Mindsets like your mean that the declien of aircraft perservation in this country would be doomed

By all means insult me but please be coherent so I get the full benefit!

As for Brooklands – what part of being enlightened in preservation involves spending money on aircraft whilst other important aircraft are out in the rain?

You dont get it and you never will. Mindsets like your mean that the declien of aircraft perservation in this country would be doomed. Thankfully Brooklands are more enlightened than that. More power to them for that.

Be that as it may, the specific point is that the Vimy is grounded because the UK lacks an equivalent to the US’ categories. It is that simple. Is there any good reason the UK couldn’t have them? No.

As a former resident of the UK and the spouse of a proud UK citizen, I have a theory about the UK mindset.

I get the feeling that the majority of UK residents haven’t quite accepted the notion that made the U.S. what it is (for good or ill…:D). Simply put:

The government is there to serve people, not the other way around.

It seems many accept rules..no matter their lack of logic or purpose..without question. UK residents are great at producing satire and complaints, but I don’t see many things changing.

Interesting comments. Having spent the last month ‘spannering’ in my own time trying to save something that is clearly historic -I don’t quite understand how you can judge someone’s else’s ability! How many historic aircraft have you rescued from destruction ?

As for your notes -‘done more in it’s class’ – what exactly does it mean ?
Clearly the Brooklands Vickers Wellington did a bit to defeat the axis powers – it probably didn’t set any records or do any noteworthy flights but that wasn’t it’s purpose. Similarily the Viking did a lot to establish post war commercial flying -but it wasn’t glamorous . As for the Concorde -I guess that probably holds a few supersonic records as a type .

So using your reasoning we have examples of the Wellington elsewhere as well as the Viking airliner in Europe – so if push came to shove they would be outside to accomodate the Vimy reproduction.

Lastly it is a reproduction. It doesn’t conform to the original manufacturer’s drawings – the Hendon example does therefore that is a replica i.e it replicates the original. My understanding of historic aviation is that something is part of history . Recreating history isn’t history itself . When you see people dressed up at Duxford in uniform – they are recreating history -what they do isn’t historic . Similarily the Vimy is recreating a period of history – that isn’t historic in itself . Whilst the Vimy has certainly been successful as an operating machine – I would be agast if anyone who has operated this machine thinks they are as worthy a place in history as the likes of Alcock and Brown.

I do however object to it going inside if it means that the likes of the Viscount etc at Brooklands still struggle to get a roof over their heads if deference to a reproduction.

What a sad and pathetic point of view from somone who clearly has no understanding of what makes a particular aircraft historic.

The Vimy may well be new(ish) build but its done more in its class than all of the aircraft at Brooklands have. It fully deserves to be undercover at the expense of aircraft that have examples preserved elsewhere. Especially considering its construction does not lend itself well to keeping it outside.

It is no mere reproduction and to think so show a total lack of understanding of historic aviation and what makes an aircraft worthy of preservation.

Without heading too far off the thread the DC3 could have continued operating passenger carrying public transport under EASA. The operator was unwilling to carry out the minor modifications needed.

That was EASA not CAA. What are the other examples :confused:

My apologies to the cat’s paw.

The distinction (as you know well, Joe!) is important to those trying to maintain aviation in the UK – however whether it was EASA or the CAA’s failing to address the EASA requirement, it’s still a loss to the UK’s vintage aviation activities – something the CAA failed to advocate for in this case.

The other examples are not for publication here, PM me if interested by all means. I’m sure you can think of some.

Scotavia,
Very pithy post, and I agree entirely – wish I’d been as brief as you! I’ll just finish as you touched on by pointing out the magnificent achievements of the Vimy replica crew with three commemorative flights replicating the achievements of the prior Vimy crews across the Atlantic, to Australia and South Africa. Well done all.

Regards,

I don’t really mind if the Vimy flies or not -I do however object to it going inside if it means that the likes of the Viscount etc at Brooklands still struggle to get a roof over their heads if deference to a reproduction.

Good point, however the Vimy fits inside the present hangar, the Viscount does not. Also, while it is a reproduction/replica/facsimile I feel that the Vimy has earned a place in history in its own right by now.

On the other hand I’m sure that if Brooklands could get its hands on an original Vimy, NX71MY would be outside in a flash 😉

Thanks Archer,

I can think of multiple examples of recent losses of UK aviation – from the halting of pleasure flying in DC-3s (one goes over here weekly) to the main operator of a major UK airshow (which gathers overseas revenue to the UK) having a paperwork fandango.

That was EASA not CAA. What are the other examples :confused: