The Gander Hudson

Not to nitpick… 😀
Actually, it’s a Howard a luxury (pre biz-jet) conversion of a Lodestar.
The thing to have in the 50’s…
I believe Mike Todd…Liz Taylor’s husband was killed in one. A Lodesatr at any rate.
BTW: Bill Lear also ran a modification company …the ships were called Learstars.

Actually, they have two Lodestars. One looks fairly stock and is painted in British markings, hence the reason I mistook it for a Hudson.

Hi Chad,
It is a Lodestar. Easy mistake to make though.
Cheers
James

Not to nitpick… 😀
Actually, it’s a Howard a luxury (pre biz-jet) conversion of a Lodestar.
The thing to have in the 50’s…
I believe Mike Todd…Liz Taylor’s husband was killed in one. A Lodesatr at any rate.
BTW: Bill Lear also ran a modification company …the ships were called Learstars.

gander hudson

Actually , its off of a Ventura, if you look closely at the flap tracks there is a small filler piece that runs from the wing joint and tapers off, Hudsons, didn,t have that piece.

flyinprice

Yes we did recover a outer wing panel for a hudson. Its off an american Hudson.
It still has the star on it.

Flyinprice

gander hudson

There is also another Hudson near Gander about 50 miles away, in Musgrave Harbour the remains of the aircraft that Sir Fredrick Banting was killed in, also near this one is a full size wooden replica, built about 4 years ago.Also on the ACAM Hudson they have recovered a wing for thier project a few years ago.

Hi Chad,
It is a Lodestar. Easy mistake to make though.
Cheers
James

My bad, the Chino bird must be a Lodestar as they don’t list a Hudson.

Isn’t their a Hudson on outdoor display at the Planes of Fame Museum also? Seems like the Hudson has enough history that it would/should be paid much more attention than it gets.

Oh, I don’t suppose you ever found out the serial numbers of the caravan and horse float Hudsons? Sorry to be a nuisance.

Wow, , marvellous, absolutely brilliant stuff. What fascinating stories and photos. Thanks Denys.

Horseflots, henhouses, caravans, farm sheds… very versatile aircraft 😀

All this sort of thing really fascinates me. Especially with the Hudson, and especially now that I’m working on the book on the General Reconnaissance Squadrons. Thanks.

I hope to feature the survivors in the book so will be in touch when i get to that bit. in the meantime if you have other stories or photos to share I’m sure we’re all keen to hear.

By the way, did you ever track down the F4U or its ultimate fate?

Should have looked in that other directory!

Three attached photos show the caravan in the Catlins, the Hudson being manoeuvered in Dunedin, and the RNZAF crew uplifting NZ2035 from the Holdaway farm for transport to ferrymead (all due credit to the original sources of course!)

You really have started me off now Dave.

You’re right about Edwards as he bought a batch (six if the memory is again on track) and on sold them. One whose serial I don’t know became the property of my uncle Bert Crouch of Blenheim and (horror of horrors shame of shames in the family) Bert eventually made a horse float out of the main cabin. (Bert ran an engineering business in Blenheim). Holdaways came from Edwards as well.

I once have contact with a family near Kaiapoi who had bought a Hudson from Wigram but by the time I found them they’d long since sent it to the scrapyard. I traced them by accident following up names in the phone book when I was trying to trace the F4U that was disposed of from Wigram, same name, same airbase different aircraft.

I also one day met a lttle old lady from Dunedin and her husband had made the family a caravan from one and a few years ago we located it parked under a tree down south in the Catlins. I’ve a photo somewhere of it.

I’ve also seen an article about an old truck driver from Dunedin and one of the photos shows a Hudson being inched into a suburban property and I’ve often wondered if it’s the caravan one.

A lot of this was covered in the article on the RNZAF use of the Hudson in the Aviation Historical Society Journal some years ago, try your local library or perhaps AHSNZ do back orders.

Thanks Denys, this is truly fascinating stuff for me.

So, part of NZ2039 survived too. Cor. A lot of what can be foiund on the fates of individuals aircraft stops with “sold bu the War Assets Board to Mr” and it often has Mr H.C. (Jim) Larsen of Rukuhia, or Mr Jack Gould, or Mr L. Edwards, or perhaps a smelting firm. I’ve often been under the misapprehension that this is where they ended their days, in a melting pots as these men or companies were bulk buyers of aircraft.

But it seems a number survived being passed on by these dealers, including NZ2035 and NZ2039, which both went through the hands of Mr Edwards.

NZ2031 at Motat seems to have always been in the possession of a Mr Carr between it’s RNZAF disposal and being gifted to Motat.

NZ2013 was apparently bought by Jim Clarke of Maheno, Oamaru,, directly, and his second Hudson, NZ2049, came to him via Mr Edwards also. ’13 is now at Wigram, ’49 being now with John Smith.

So, what exactly was Mr L. Edwards’ role? Did he pass on all his aircraft to other buyers?

Now you have me really curious as to which aircraft were at Larsens/Asplins in the late 1960’s. It is quite possible that one was indeed NZ2084. But which was the other one? It was none of the known survivors. And it was not the Moatat Ventura as that came from Nelson. Is there perhaps another still lurking somewhere. Or was it cut up and melted down.

There are questions I have about the fate of several others – I wonder what became of these ones: (last known fates from adf.serials)
NZ2001 last known owner Department of Agriculture
NZ2003 last known owner Department of Agriculture
NZ2010 last known owner Mr Caley – sold from Taieri
NZ2080 last known owner Mr MacIntosh
NZ2067 last known owner “unknown buyer” – sold from Rukuhia I’d imagine

Perhaps there is a possibility that at least one more is hiding in a barn somewhere.

As for the Hudson on the mudflats I’d love to have another go at reaching it someday. It is certainly too difficult by foot when unprepared, as I and my mates found whe I tried. We had decided to try to reach it by boat by low tide and await for the water to disappear, but we never did get around to it. If it is indeed as intact as I recently heard, I’d be surpised. But it might be worth a look someday.

The Marlborough Museum of Flight was really one guy named Warwick Bint and they uplifted the Hudson from the Holdaways and took it to, of all places, Warwick’s residence. This was a block of flats in Blenheim and it sat alongside the driveway there. I recall seeing a photo of it there somewhere once.

All that happened to it was some paint was stripped off the port nose. Then Warwick left Bleanheim and it all fell apart. The Holdaways had to go and reclaim the aircraft and took it back to their farm. We heard this had happened so wrote to them and said that if they were ever to dispose of it we’d like first option on it. They replied immediately to the effect that we could have it if we repaid the $30 it had cost to get it back (these are 1970’s $). So we acquired NZ2035.

The Holdaways had three wings and a few other small parts which we got as well. MoTaT then furnished bits that they had reclaimed earlier from the Holdaways.

A wee while later Warwick Bint turned up in my life (literally in the dead of night) and gave me the contact details of Angus Cameron from Dunback Central Otago. From Angus we go the centre sections of NZ2039, and one outer wing. We broke up this wing for materials to repair the centre sections and to repair the two wings for NZ2035. The “spare” wing we then sent to Cliff Robertson at Queensland Air Museum for his Ventura.

So that’s the main part of the story.

As for the one in the mud flats I never knew it was accessible so that’s interesting in asmuch as I would have expected Barry East to have burgled it when he did MoTaTs NZ2031.

I’m not sure but I believe NZ2084 was likely at the roadside garage at Larsens in the late 60’s when I passed by. There were two fuselages there with nose codes X and Y, if memory serves correctly, but I’m surmising that either could be 2084.

cheers

Thanks Denys. That’s a huge shame if it has been destroyed. I remember the fuselage being at Wigram in the early 1990’s when they were restoring NZ2013, and though certainly not complete, and largely empty inside, it was then a reasonably substantial and recognisable piece of aircraft. I’d hate to think it was scrapped in this day and age, and while in ownership of such a prominent museum.

Denys, I know you’re something of a Hudson expert, so I wonder if I may ask a few questions that have bugged me for some time. Do you have any idea of the history of NZ2084 – while I was based at Wigram a few of the guys on the ‘2013 restoration team told me ‘2084 had been used in the TV series ‘The Sea Urchins’, and sunk in water for its scene. That was a 1980 kid’s show made by TVNZ. Have you heard of this? I have not yet been able to get confirmation of the story.

I wonder who owned ‘2084 in the years between leaving RNZAF service when it was bought by scrap man Mr Larsen, and getting to the RNZAF Museum. Was it simply languishing at Rukuhia?

Also, your own museum’s Hudson apparently was previously displayed with the Marlborough Museum of Flight, whilst owned by the Holdaway family in Blenheim. Do you know anything about that museum in Marlborough? Where was it based, and what else did they have? Did Ferrymead get anything else from there when it closed?

Another question – the wings on NZ2013 now are reported to have been found acting as a shed roof somewhere near Blenheim. Do you know which aircraft they came off? Were they perhaps also from ‘2084?

Lastly, it’s well known that a Hudson still exists in the Upper Auckland Harbour, in the mudflats just west of the Grenhythe Bridge, which crashed on approach to Whenuapai. I tried to go have a look at low tide once while based at Hobsonville but the mud was impossible to traverse. Just recently however I heard from a mate that he has been out to the aircraft with an IPMS modelling group who did a day trip and braved the mud for a look. He said he was amazed at how complete the plane is. Have you ever had a look at it yourself? If so, what are your impressions of it? I thought as it had stalled at low level it would have been failry badly damaged but my mate didn’t seem to imply this. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your time, and thanks to everyone who’s replied here.

Ah the Aviators’ Gallery was run by Nigel Wilcox and yes he did have “the fuselage” but it was less than 70% full length and had all the floor area missing and if I recall correctly Nigel cut it in half to get it upstairs at his first site.

I haven’t seen or heard of him for best part a year now and at that time he was getting rid of heaps of stuff due to having no storage. We got the fuselage of a Cessna AgWagon and he’d cut that into 8 bits!

I might be pessimistic but I think ‘2084 would now be fond memory.

Hi Denys, sorry about that. The adf.serials website run by Ivan Prince (among others) lists the fuselage of NZ2084 as now being in storage with your museum

http://adf-serials.com/nz-serials/nz2001.shtml

Do you know what has become of this one then? It had previously been loaned by the RNZAF Museum to some aviators art gallery in Christchurch but I’ve been told that has since shut. Did NZ2084 return to Wigram?

Don’t know where you got the notion we’ve got two fuselages at Ferrymead David NZ2035/AE503 is the only one.

The Hudson was also the first RNZAF aircraft to see combat in the Pacific, with No. 3 GR Squadron. I interviewed the pilot, George Gudsell, a few weeks ago. The five survivors in NZ are all under cover I believe (so long as Ferrymead has the second fuselage under cover – Denys Jones, can you confirm this?)

Is the spare fuselage that has been photographed at the AWM still outdoors too? At least it’s reasonably dry in Aussie compared with Canada’s outdoor storage but photos I’ve seen of the AWM fuse shows it without so much as a tarpaulin over it. The likes of these could easily and cheaply be stored somewhere to preserve them beter I’m sure – even if a few garden sheds were tacked together around the fuselage.

There is one RNZAF Hudson still in the elements at Plaine des Gaiac too which was in a reasonably restorable condition according to photos on the Pacifc Wrecks site. I wonder if it’s still there (as well as the RNZAF Ventura on their site still sitting in the islands). I wish someone could recover them both to NZ and preserve them rathr than letting the jungle have them.

Indeed it’s a pity.

Sadly it’s not alone. The Atlantic Canada Aviation Museum have a Hudson fuselage hulk, which is outside. To be fair they have got the maximum number of aircraft they can inside, and I think it’s a great little museum, but given the relative rarity of Hudsons it would be nice to see that one stored as it’s not in display, but just hidden on the far side of the car park.

According to Roy Blewett’s ‘Survivors’ there are 14 surviving Lockheed 14s worldwide, less than 1% of the production. There’s one flying (Temora’s newly repainted ‘The Tojo Busters’) 8 preserved, 1 in restoration 4 stored.

Used by Britain, Australia, New Zealand, the US and many other forces, first into action against the Japanese in the Pacific war (just ahead of Pearl Harbor) in Australian hands, vital in the Atlantic Bridge, one of trhe RAF’s first kill types in the North Atlantic (shot down a Do-18) used by 161 Sqn for agent drops and pickups, etc, etc, that’s a lamentable state of affairs.

The ex-RAAF example in the RAF Museum is realy not a good representation of a Hudson being without any of it’s military equipment, and in a bizarre mixed Aussie scheme.