The most decorated survivor?

On the other hand, Boris Safonov’s I-16 Type 28 “White 51” (p/n 28213-95) hung from the ceiling of the Naval Museum for years and years. Safonov scored at least 17, and possibly 19, of his personal claims and 11 more ‘shared’ on this very aircraft.

Is this the one that’s there now, as I have heard that the original was removed some years ago and replaced by the present one, which may be a partial replica?

This one ??……. (I didn’t stay long – the rain was pouring down)
Ken

Brilliant, Ken– that is the one. This is without any doubt a mock-up. The canopy and rear fuselage look like an La-9 (ish), whilst the forward cowling is just a silly invention from thin air.

The wing and stabiliser shapes are better, however. What a shame whomever built it did not do any useful research on the topic. I reckon this could have been quite convincing with better details.

There is also now an La-5FN at the Lavochkin factory on a plinth labelled “La-7” (ridiculously enough, with equally absurd paint job). I believe this to be a mock-up, but there are claims that this exhibit contains some types of genuine parts. I’ve never seen it, so such remains to be seen, but this is probably another replica (as at Park Pobedi, Moscow).

This one ??……. (I didn’t stay long – the rain was pouring down)

A couple of painted murals outside the gates….

Ken

It has been an interesting thread so far, especially the bombers but it was more for missions/kills than paint scheme’s that would be another great thread idea.

I have sent a link of the thread to my friend see what he makes of it, thanks for all the comments.

curlyboy

I wasn’t intending to make any comparison, just to point out that there was a survivng bomber that had flown a lot more missions than the Lancaster at Hendon.

Uh, that’s making a comparison. 😉 However you weren’t drawing conclusions, I agree.

It’s harmless fun, except we shouldn’t forget that there’s no 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc based on racking up numbers of anything. That data is actually irrelevant.

Hee hee , good one Matt

NII_VVS-very interesting, not likely these would have been ‘scrapped’ so late in the piece -time to get the sniffer dogs out:)

Most decorated survivor is indeed vague- as a friend of mine noted – ‘Enola Gay’ and ‘Bockscar’ could also rate a mention, along with a number of A-26 and B-25, C-47s and World War 1 machines.

Dave

…I wondered at first if he was referring to most colourfully decorated artwork/paintwork,

I wondered the same thing.

This one is a favourite of mine;

It isn’t a survivor, but nobody could argue that it wasn’t well-decorated!

Cheers,
Matt

I wasn’t intending to make any comparison, just to point out that there was a survivng bomber that had flown a lot more missions than the Lancaster at Hendon.

Personally I was not really sure what curly boy’s description of ‘most decorated survivor’ meant. At first I assumed this thread was to be about surviving veterans who were awarded the most medals. I would have liked to see that topic. Then when I realsied he was talking about aircraft I wondered at first if he was referring to most colourfully decorated artwork/paintwork,

Avro Lancaster R5868 S-Sugar at Hendon, London, UK, flew 137 operations.

Martin B-26 Marauder “Flak Bait” at the Smithsonian Institute, Washington DC, USA, flew 202 (some sources say 207) bombing missions over Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.

This ‘comparison’ of a tactical medium against a strategic heavy* kind of illustrates the fundamental issue with the ‘Top Trumps’ approach to history and achievement. It’s interesting, and it recognises some forms of personal achievement (and luck) but measures warfare like a race, rather than a practice of possession and denial.

[* 4,000 lb against 14,000 lb standard max bomb loads, is notable, as a start. Then taking the considerations as to what bombs where and when, how effectively ‘laid’ with which objective/s is better analysis than spotter-counting numbers.]

The Yak-3 to which you refer has become embroiled in a rather extended financial and ownership dispute, and to my knowledge is still in California.

it is indeed still in California. I had the opportunity to examine and photograph it last month.

Martin B-26 Marauder “Flak Bait” at the Smithsonian Institute, Washington DC, USA, flew 202 (some sources say 207) bombing missions over Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.

Was just going to mention that one….

Hi NII_VVS

La-5? I always thought there were none exisiting (except for parts)?
Where is it now and do you have photos? I have never seen it previously.

What about the Yak-3 that was taken to the US for ‘loan’ and is still at the Santa Monica Musuem I think – also an ace aircraft.

In Soviet times I knew of two La-5s, both of which I examined myself. Kostilev’s La-5 was shared between two exhibitions at Park Pobedi in Leningrad and the GMA (museum). Another La-5F was kept at Zhukovski-TsAGI, partly disassembled. This machine was p/n 39211209, and a photo of it can be seen in Soviet Combat Aircraft Vol1, page 45. It was no longer painted white when I saw it (1988), but it was indeed the same aircraft. Alas, both machines “disappeared” in 1992.

The Yak-3 to which you refer has become embroiled in a rather extended financial and ownership dispute, and to my knowledge is still in California. This machine was also once an exhibit in the Leningrad GMA, and similarly ‘went missing’ in 1992. Happily, it surfaced again in the same year as part of a deal involving the manufacture of Yaks at Orenburg (it was for this reason that it went to California, as I understand it).

There is also now an La-5FN at the Lavochkin factory on a plinth labelled “La-7” (ridiculously enough, with equally absurd paint job). I believe this to be a mock-up, but there are claims that this exhibit contains some types of genuine parts. I’ve never seen it, so such remains to be seen, but this is probably another replica (as at Park Pobedi, Moscow).

I said in bomber terms it is possibly S for sugar at Hendon

Avro Lancaster R5868 S-Sugar at Hendon, London, UK, flew 137 operations.

Martin B-26 Marauder “Flak Bait” at the Smithsonian Institute, Washington DC, USA, flew 202 (some sources say 207) bombing missions over Germany, the Netherlands, Belgium, and France.

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Kozhedubs_White27/index.php

Interesting article from Erik (I’m assuming that’s NII VVS)- I do love your comments on previous interpretations of Soviet colours.

It is worth noting that the TsKB-19, which was photographed hanging above “27”, disappeared from the TsDAK collection and has never been seen again.

I wonder if the roof gave way and dropped one on the other…?

Hi NII_VVS

La-5? I always thought there were none exisiting (except for parts)?
Where is it now and do you have photos? I have never seen it previously.

What about the Yak-3 that was taken to the US for ‘loan’ and is still at the Santa Monica Musuem I think – also an ace aircraft.

regards
Dave

The La-7 at Monino is very likely not Kozhedub’s machine. However, even if it were it would not have the most ‘kills’ associated with it. Ivan Kozhedub accumulated 17 of his 63 victories on the La-7, so it could have had no more than that. Further, we still do not know if he piloted a single La-7 (“White 27”), or more than one.

On the other hand, Boris Safonov’s I-16 Type 28 “White 51” (p/n 28213-95) hung from the ceiling of the Naval Museum for years and years. Safonov scored at least 17, and possibly 19, of his personal claims and 11 more ‘shared’ on this very aircraft. HSU Kostilev’s La-5 “White 15” was part of the GMA museum collection in Leningrad until 1992, on which he obtained nine personal and 26 shared victories, as was Avdeev’s Yak-9M (eight personal on that one).

Ken

Yes I have heard the conspiracy theory rumours about this aircraft

This is interesting

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/Markings/Kozhedubs_White27/index.php

Fighters
Kozhedub’s La-7

I’m not sure if this is Kozhedub’s actual machine – but it is painted up as such…

It is at Monino and was brought outside for a ‘Flying Legends’ show held there in 2004….

Close up of the 62 kill markings and the 3 X Hero of the Soviet Union medals…

The same machine is now inside the newly-opened GPW hangar at Monino….

Ken

Fighters

Off the top of my head, without checking exact figures- in descending order…

Kozhedub’s La-7
Carganico’s 109F-4
Finnish 109G-6
Arnold’s 262
Pekuri’s Buffalo?

Not sure, but I think Spitfire Vb EP120 is possibly credited with the highest number of kills. I think Spitfire Ia R6915 is another with a high number of claims.

But, I don’t know exact figures, I’m afraid…. 😮