The P-51 Big Beautiful Doll at IWM in London!

The differences between LaurentB & MikeH’s pics are quite interesting. It’s good to see that money has been spent on the museum.

In fact, I have made a mistake dating my picture 1999, it was July 1995 in fact.

Here is a picture taken in March 1999:

with the rudder removed and the tail covered, while some work was done on the walls.

Laurent

The differences between LaurentB & MikeH’s pics are quite interesting. It’s good to see that money has been spent on the museum.

So the question is why was Sherman’s quote removed? There must be a reason. I think the IWM staff are quite well informed of US history.

Answer to another question was the Fw190, He162 and P-51D BBD were all refurbished / repainted by ARCO when the new gallerys were opened in the referbished IWM Lambeth, and trucked down on a couple of flatbeds (86? Can’t remember for certain.) The ARCo website mentions the jobs BTW. The Fw and He were both unrestored from Lambeth, though the Fw had recieved a ropey repaint many years earlier. As it’s a Mistel top half it’s a bit of an oddity either way. The Mustang had been done a few years earier at DX as discussed.

Cheers!

The Lambeth P51D seen last Saturday:-

That would be the Whitehall Theatre of War, owned by Paul Raymond of artistically posed nakid wimmin on stage and page fame.
Whether the Mustang was owned by him is another matter, but it was formerly Italian AF MM4292 recovered from Cappenelli in around 1980 and displayed in the theatre between 1982-85 before becoming G-BMBA with Aces High and rapidly shipped out to America, where it was (as far as my battered copy of the Warbirds Directory 2nd edition can tell me) under rebuild to fly with Cougar Helicopters of Daytona Beach. Since its original serial was not known I’d image it will have acquired a much more interesting history by now (sort of a dataplate rebuild in reverse, I suppose. Stealing history?).
It has been mentioned a few times here, with pix even, but I think it was just the basic shell when it was displayed in Britain.

Flood

That P-51 would be 44-73098 and its last sign of life was an ad in Flypast from Don Whittington’s World Jet, offering the plane as “for trade-static”. There was a photo in a former tread, shot by Septic of the plane at Whitehall Theatre of War. Here it is!

T J

I remember seeing one in London at some museum in the 80’s, that had a theme of the London Blitz.

That would be the Whitehall Theatre of War, owned by Paul Raymond of artistically posed nakid wimmin on stage and page fame.
Whether the Mustang was owned by him is another matter, but it was formerly Italian AF MM4292 recovered from Cappenelli in around 1980 and displayed in the theatre between 1982-85 before becoming G-BMBA with Aces High and rapidly shipped out to America, where it was (as far as my battered copy of the Warbirds Directory 2nd edition can tell me) under rebuild to fly with Cougar Helicopters of Daytona Beach. Since its original serial was not known I’d image it will have acquired a much more interesting history by now (sort of a dataplate rebuild in reverse, I suppose. Stealing history?).
It has been mentioned a few times here, with pix even, but I think it was just the basic shell when it was displayed in Britain.

Flood

Nice pics, Thanks for sharing, Mike

Looks like the middle pic is upside down.

Laurent

What the name means….

As for Sherman being a Republican thats rich Gen T. Sherman was quote many times that he didn’t belong to any political party and strongly beleived that Military Officers should stay out of the Political Areana. This was a swipe at Gen. U.S Grant who would become Pres. Grant.

RER

The name “Sherman was right” refers to a well known saying of his..
“War is hell.”
It has nothing to do with politics.
If the museum changed it…thinking it meant something else, they were in error. Maybe they need someone who knows American history…. 🙂

Could have been, but wasn’t.

The restoration was not done to airworthy standard, nor was it ever intended that it would fly again.

I was thinking that, And lets be honest there are plenty of P51s flying both here and in the USA so for once i can say i am glad to see one in the museum.

the Lambeth P-51D would have been another flyer.

But it is flying Martin, see 😀

Seems like they removed the oil and coolant radiators (to save weight?), is the engine still inside?

Laurent

Janie

sad but true – the Lambeth P-51D would have been another flyer.
I will soon (coming weekend) post pictures showing this aircraft under rebuild at Duxford back in 1984.

Martin

I was once told, by a good friend who claimed to be Duxford Aviation Society (DAS) member No. 3, that when BBD was restored by DAS at Duxford in the early 70s, it was restored to flying condition and it was a travesty to have it strung up. The engine was never run, but he reckoned it could have done.

Can anyone verify this?

Also, can you think of another reason why they would have ommited a relatively harmless piece of nose art? It’s not as if it contains any swearing, racial, sexual content.

Well, i heard the story about the missing nose art from someone on this board a while ago. Just can’t remember who the blooming hell it was now! 😉 I have said all that i know. You’ve got to admit it does sound fairly convincing, politics gets in the way with a lot of things these days… Thnig is, if the story is true, why didn’t DX just change the codes and serial and chose another 78thFG P-51D with some nice nose art, there were plenty after all! I suppose it could come down to cost…

I understood that some of the private funding for the AAM came from an American Company that were Democrats and did not want to paint the aircraft’s Nose Art due to its apparent support of a Republican General, All be it from the Civil War.

Wrong Sir,

Alot of Money came from many different Private American Companys I know that are Family company ROHR gave some for the AAM when companys where ask to give money they were’nt ask what would you like the US Planes painted up as I can assure you that.

As for Sherman being a Republican thats rich Gen T. Sherman was quote many times that he didn’t belong to any political party and strongly beleived that Military Officers should stay out of the Political Areana. This was a swipe at Gen. U.S Grant who would become Pres. Grant.

RER

IIRC Steve the GRP replica is painted to represent ‘Sherman Was Right’ WZ-S, although the nose art was omitted due to the funding of the AAM coming from the opposing party to the wartime Sherman. Hmm… Politics eh?

The IWM plastic Mustang did have the artwork,legend applied during painting but by the time it was put in the AAM it was removed as can be seen in this pic.

Here…

“1st. Lt. Frank E. Oiler, 84th Fighter Squadron was assigned this aircraft. The name “Sherman was Right” was inspired by the words of Civil War General William T. Sherman, when he said ” There is many a boy here who looks on war as all glory but, boys, it is all hell “. Lt. Louis R. Hereford, 84th Fighter Squadron was lost on an escort mission in this aircraft on March 3, 1945 near Nordingen, Germany.”

Quote taken from: http://www.78thfightergroup.com/history/shermanwasright.html

I understood that some of the private funding for the AAM came from an American Company that were Democrats and did not want to paint the aircraft’s Nose Art due to its apparent support of a Republican General, All be it from the Civil War.

IIRC Steve the GRP replica is painted to represent ‘Sherman Was Right’ WZ-S, although the nose art was omitted due to the funding of the AAM coming from the opposing party to the wartime Sherman. Hmm… Politics eh?

Huh?
During the American Civil War (1861-65) the Union was led by Mr. Lincoln, a Republican. The Democrats were the anti-war party and in the meantime saying some very nasty things about Lincoln and were appearently content to let slavery die a “natural” death in another 50 years or so. Sherman was (along with Grant) Lincoln’s most aggressive general. An early day Patton you might say.

I believe the funding for the AAM was private and occurred during the administrations of both Bush senior and Clinton.
With all due respect…what are you trying to say and do you know what you’re talking about? :diablo:

and here’s the one now hanging at IWM Lambeth (with wrong serial #)

Martin

Ignore the aeroplane,
behind is what made Duxford special. It was untouched.
Now look at it, – a bloody fairground.

my pleasure T C !