The PLAN Aviation boss visited the São Paulo

CHINESE INTEREST IN Su-33

Chinese interest in aircraft carriers has entered an active phase, and a Chinese delegation visited MAKS’2005 to carefully study all the necessary technologies. A presentation of the Su-33 and Su- 27KUB (Su-33UB) shipborne fighters was specially arranged for the Chinese party, including a late-evening Su-27KUB demonstration flight during the show. The Su27KUB, which was not included in the official list of aircraft on display, was only present at MAKS for half a day. It was brought from Saki, Ukraine, where it is being tested, specifically for the purpose of being presented to the Chinese delegation.

At the beginning of August, before the MAKS exhibition, a Chinese delegation visited St Petersburg, where it listened to presentations by representatives of the Nevskoye PKB ship design bureau, the designer of Russian aircraft carriers, as well as to other companies cooperating with Nevskoye PKB. The Chinese also examined aircraft carrier equipment, including automatic landing systems and arresting devices. The Chinese probably visited also the Ukrainian shipyard in Mykolayiv, which has built all Soviet aircraft carries, including the Admiral Kuznetsov and Varyag.

The Russians have submitted a three-stage proposal with various dates of delivery for selling Su-33 shipborne fighters:

– present version of Su-33 as used by the Russian Navy, armed only with air-to-air missiles and intended for fleet air defence;

– modernised Su-33M version with avionics and weapons similar to that of Su-30MK2 shore-based fighters operated by the Chinese Navy, including Kh-31A antiship missiles;

– future advanced version of multirole shipborne fighter similar to the shore-based Su-35 fighter presently under development.

For the time being, the two-seat shipborne Su-27KUB is considered by the Chinese as a training aircraft only.

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This case it is highly likely that China will try and obtain the Su-33M (based on the Su-30MKK2) for its carrier fighter jets.

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/294831/russian_industry_shows_its_stuff/

It’s interesting to see and hear about Chinese efforts to develop a better understanding of carriers, cairrier aircraft and carrier operations. What puzzles me is that a lot of people immediately take that as a sign of (pending) carrier development and/or deployment. The knowledge the chinese are gaining could just as well and easily be used to develop and refine anti-carrier weapons and tactics. In other words, just because they are doing their homework doesn’t – automatically – mean they are or will be will designing and building one or more carriers in the foreseeable future.

You may have a point. Yet, do you need to know Carrier Flight Operations to sink one? Further, China is expanding her blue water fleet and to project power far from home. You would need a Aircraft Carrier. As a matter of fact countries that operate Aircraft Carriers are growing by the year and with the advent of the JSF that number could explode in the next 10-15years…….. 😀

FLY NAVY 😎

if china’s economy continues to grow at its present rate, then not too far in the future china will want to, and more importantly, be able to easily afford carrier groups of its own. its better to do your homework now and have a feesable proposal ready and waiting for the funds as opposed to having the money but still needing to wait years before even starting contruction while you try to come up with a workable design.

you should also take into account the internal political forces within the PLAN. i often find it amusing that many people seem to think that china and/or the PLA is some kind of borg collective with a single well define goal. its much like any other human organisation in that there are many different groups with different opinions and interests competing to try and have their way.

all this could easily be the pro-carrier of the PLAN trying to come up with a decent proposal to the central command to try and get approval for carriers. after all, wouldnt you find it more convincing if someone came to you with a well thought out and functional plan instead of just some half-baked wish list of a sales pitch?

china will get carriers. just not now.

Judging from these efforts alone, e.g. visiting everybody’s existing carrier, of course it does not provide any substantial evidence on their real purpose. But if you put these efforts into the big picture that lasted more than 20 years, and all the other efforts they have tried, IMO, they are researching on floating a carrier rather than sinking one. For example, if you want to sink a carrier, why bother wasting so much energy on steam catapult which they’ve been checking around for over 2 decades.

It’s interesting to see and hear about Chinese efforts to develop a better understanding of carriers, cairrier aircraft and carrier operations. What puzzles me is that a lot of people immediately take that as a sign of (pending) carrier development and/or deployment. The knowledge the chinese are gaining could just as well and easily be used to develop and refine anti-carrier weapons and tactics. In other words, just because they are doing their homework doesn’t – automatically – mean they are or will be will designing and building one or more carriers in the foreseeable future.

Really, I don’t see how anyone can say China isn’t planning on a Aircraft Carrier in the near future. Personally, I think its a very bad choice….. 😮

Dont forget South Korea.

With, India and Japan expanding the way they are, I think the arms race already started.

I would have to agree. :rolleyes: Asia will be the next hot spot no doubt about it! Of course India and Japan would say they are expanding because of the Military Build-Up in China. 🙁

With, India and Japan expanding the way they are, I think the arms race already started.

IMO, pro sub faction still in domination simply because it’s the best and most economic way to deter mighty CVGs. However, PLAN now realizes in the sea, there are not all the time only the CVGs they have to face. Plenty of chances for PLAN to encounter 2nd tie Navy forces in east China sea or even South China sea. Where and on which occasion, the presence of a big A/C carrier is decisive.

True if you wanted to project power……….say in the Spratley Islands. :rolleyes: Of course the downside is many may wonder about your attentions and this in turn could (some say has) start a arms race! 😮

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I’m just surprised to see China developing the Varyag for an aircraft carrier of her own considering the pro sub faction in control of the PLAN today. Maybe there are new leadership changes or so.

IMO, pro sub faction still in domination simply because it’s the best and most economic way to deter mighty CVGs. However, PLAN now realizes in the sea, there are not all the time only the CVGs they have to face. Plenty of chances for PLAN to encounter 2nd tie Navy forces in east China sea or even South China sea. Where and on which occasion, the presence of a big A/C carrier is decisive.

The PLAN never sends her best to make good will visits to other ports. Even fairly older vessels like the 136 and 137 Hanzhou and Fuzhou Sovremanny class don’t do good will visits. The 167 Shenzhen Luhai class is the designated good will port visit ambassador and her crews are trained to be so.

I’m just surprised to see China developing the Varyag for an aircraft carrier of her own considering the pro sub faction in control of the PLAN today. Maybe there are new leadership changes or so.

Scoot, mate what will it take to prove this to you? We’ve been friends for a long time now and I would really hate to see you die of embaressment when she sails into Pier 19 on a good will visit to the US which is actually a show of strength and to rub it in the face of the world that they now have a carrier.

Ja- You lost me here? When did I give you that idea that China wasn’t developing a Aircraft Carrier? Personally, I’ve always believe that the former Russian Aircraft Carrier was going to return to service or at very leased be used to develope one of her own. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve debated over the years. That said, she was just in to poor condition to put back into service…….. :rolleyes:

FLY NAVY 😎

Scoot, mate what will it take to prove this to you?

Hmm, well lets see. Maybe this will do it

when she sails into Pier 19 on a good will visit to the US which is actually a show of strength and to rub it in the face of the world that they now have a carrier.

Until she sails I think quite a few folks will reserve judgement.

Daniel

Scoot, mate what will it take to prove this to you? We’ve been friends for a long time now and I would really hate to see you die of embaressment when she sails into Pier 19 on a good will visit to the US which is actually a show of strength and to rub it in the face of the world that they now have a carrier.

I read a article many years ago that “claimed” China had bought the license to build the Su-33. Which, was at around the time that China signed the deal to license produce the Su-27’s………… :rolleyes:

Did you read the report? It speaks of a Su-27KUB demonstration flight and visits to Nevskoye PKB and Mykolayiv (Nikolayev). Doesn’t sound like a case of mistaken identity to me.

According to this article they are also looking to procure Su-27K/KUB (scroll down to the end):

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/294831/russian_industry_shows_its_stuff/

I read a article many years ago that “claimed” China had bought the license to build the Su-33. Which, was at around the time that China signed the deal to license produce the Su-27’s………… :rolleyes:

According to this article they are also looking to procure Su-27K/KUB (scroll down to the end):

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technology/294831/russian_industry_shows_its_stuff/

Tough and precise questions…Regards, Hammer

Thanks…intersting. I believe the PLAN will launch the Varyag in some operational mode within the next 2-3 years.

They seem to be talkning to everyone that will host them about operations.

The Brazilian Navy is one of only three nations to operate current, conventional carriers with catapaults, the Sao Paulo.

Building maybe not (or at least not the moment), but they are defenetly refiting the ex Russian one & getting it ready for operation.