The team at Shuttleworth may well be doing a comprehensive rebuild on their Prentice. Even considering the fact that the airframe was donated to the collection, the rebuild to airworthy spec will be long and costly. Where is the point? I have always considered to charm of Old Warden to have been is pre WW2 collection, it has many years of experience on these aircraft types so why waste time, effort and money on such aircraft as the Provost, Harvard and Prentice. I understand that the Hind will be out of action for a couple of years and the Gladiator has been crying out for repaint back to 1930’s colour scheme for years, surely effort should focus on these two exhibits. I can understand the collections desire to have a different thread to the collection, especially for the airshows but many private owners would be only too happy to provide their aircraft either static of flying at one or two airshows.
By: Yak 11 Fan - 26th August 2002 at 20:03
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
>Interesting point Doughnut ! – It’s worth pointing out
>however that the used to be a Dragon Rapide based at
>Shuttleworth until it’s unfortunate demise at North Weald
The Rapide had it’s accident at Audley End, not North Weald, taking with it the life of a fine pilot.
By: David Burke - 25th August 2002 at 14:56
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Interesting point Doughnut ! – It’s worth pointing out however that the used to be a Dragon Rapide based at Shuttleworth until it’s unfortunate demise at North Weald and the collection also had an Auster AOP.9 until they sold it in 1984 so they obviously had the ability then operate these types !
If you are not able to operate two types that are fairly benign
but will consider rebuilding a Boulton Paul Balliol from Sri Lanka that’s been on static display for many years and also have a clear intention of purchasing a NA Harvard for the collection well maybe I have it all wrong !
By: galdri - 22nd August 2002 at 20:52
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
I very much doubt there are many DC6´s in Scandinavia. I´ve seen one, I seem to remember, on Thorp airfield near Oslo about three years ago. At that time it looked none airworthy with some parts missing. I think a flying DC6 in Scandinavia would be no secret to anyone, anyway, so probably this is just one of those rumours.
Galdri
By: philo - 22nd August 2002 at 20:45
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Whilst talking about Bagington,and i accept this perhaps should be on another forum, I have heard that AA have just aquired some(how many?) DC6’s from Scandinavia. They are due to arrive anytime now and are still in their airline service livery (SAS??). Could make interesting viewing.
By: tonydyer - 22nd August 2002 at 20:25
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Add an Anson Mk 1 and an Oxford to that list Dave and I will be very happy!
>Well Shuttleworth has stated it’a collecting policy to be
>the first hundred years of flight so stopping it’s
>collecting policy pre 1940
>would be seen by most to be premature.
> Regards the Prentice she is very much an ‘unloved’ type
>and I don’t have a problem with her. In the fullness of time
>I would love to see an early BN Islander based there ,a
>Dragon Rapide again and
>there is certainly room for a Proctor. The are many types
>that would only add to the character of Shuttleworth -an
>Auster being a prime example !
By: DOUGHNUT - 22nd August 2002 at 14:03
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Thanks Philo I must have missed that one. If Air Atlantic can provide the Dove why do Shuttleworth need their own Prentice as I am sure that AA would be happy to show off their example. The attendance fee paid by Shuttleworth could be the only income that AA make from their Prentice.
On a different subject does anybody know why AA do not have their ‘open days’ any more ?
By: philo - 22nd August 2002 at 12:40
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Atlantique did just that this year by bring the Gulf Air Dove to Old Warden and displayed it very well.
By: DOUGHNUT - 22nd August 2002 at 10:30
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
To reply to David’s last comments. It would love to see such types as the Dragon Rapide, Proctor and Auster at Old Warden. But the Shuttleworth Collection does not have the necessary funding or engineering support to own and operate these types and that was my point about the Prentice. I am not against the preservation and operation of ‘boring’ training aircraft, indeed Air Atlantic at Coventry are a perfect example of what can be done with a collection of very interesting aircraft. If Shuttleworth want to display trainer aircraft why not invite Air Atlantic to provide one or two of their fleet at each airshow. Last year I remember a Shuttleworth flying display which included two Magisters, a Miles Geminie and Messenger and only one of those was owned by the collection. Shuttleworth should use their limited funds wisely.
By: stringbag - 21st August 2002 at 21:40
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Read in an old copy of Flypast that Shuttleworth “guarantee that the Comet will be airworthy in 2034 for the Century anniversary of its Air Race win.”
HTH
M
By: David Burke - 21st August 2002 at 18:05
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
Well Shuttleworth has stated it’a collecting policy to be the first hundred years of flight so stopping it’s collecting policy pre 1940
would be seen by most to be premature.
Regards the Prentice she is very much an ‘unloved’ type and I don’t have a problem with her. In the fullness of time I would love to see an early BN Islander based there ,a Dragon Rapide again and
there is certainly room for a Proctor. The are many types that would only add to the character of Shuttleworth -an Auster being a prime example !
By: Ant.H - 21st August 2002 at 17:25
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
I very much agree with what’s been said in the last couple of posts. As time goes by,these aircraft can only get older-they’ll surelly be considered vintage before too long,if they aren’t already.I think the Collection is doing a good job in the way that it is looking forward to the future.
With regards to the colour scheme on the Glad,I’m personally quite happy with it-to my mind silver is the only colour a Gladiator should be.As for the Faith,Hope & Charity colour scheme idea,I think this would be a great scheme for TFC’s SeaGladiator when she’s done, being as the originals were SeaGladiators. 🙂
While we’re talking about the Shuttleworth Collection,I’ve heard that the Comet racer will only be operated for one year,and then retired for the next decade. 🙁
Does anyone know what the rationale behind this is?That particular year was meant to be this year,so perhaps we won’t get much of a chance to see her before she’s grounded again,being as she hasn’t even flown yet (so far as I know).
By: Arabella-Cox - 21st August 2002 at 12:24
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
I’d go along with Steve’s comments about the training theme, as it’s an area of historic aviation which most of the major collections have seemed to neglect.
On the subject of the Gladiator, I’d be very interested to see her in a ‘Faith Hope and Charity’ colour scheme when she’s next due for a repaint…
By: Steve Bond - 21st August 2002 at 10:34
RE: The Prentice at Shuttleworth
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 21-08-02 AT 10:36 AM (GMT)]Personally, I feel there is very much a point to the Prentice restoration. While I agree about the charm of the pre WW2 aircraft (and indeed pre WW1!), if you look carefully at the types in their collection, there is already a very strong training aircraft theme.
Avro 504K
Hawker Tomtit
Avro Tutor
DH Tiger Moth
Miles Magister
Thus an extension of the collecting policy to include later piston-engined training types seems perfectly logical to me.
There is also the question of the long-term future of types such as the Prentice and provost in private hands. You may recall that when the Provost was purchased, it was stated that it was the only available aircraft with a long fatigue life remaining. Given the benign operating conditions at Old Warden, such an aircraft is likely to have a much longer flying life ahead of it than many harder worked machines elsewhere (with due respect to other owners of course).
Yes, the Hind will be out of action for a while, as will the DH.51 which is being “rested”, but it will be back in the future. I don’t think I agree that the Gladiator is “crying out” for a repaint. The Norwegian markings are in my view, very attractive, and have not been on it for THAT long. Plus of course, the expense of an “un-necessary” repait needs to be considered.
I say “well done” Shuttleworth, keep up the good work.
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August 21, 2002 at 8:48 am