[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-10-02 AT 04:51 PM (GMT)]As most of you must be aware that Russian civil aviation industry is really in shambles. They are not getting orders, most of the fleets of Russian jets are old, half of them are grounded and the ones which are flying are not safe(as people say).
Aerfolot is going towards western jets as it found the Russian people themselves did not trust Russian jets. AFter this decline we saw some improvement, a better version of IL 86, the IL 96 was brought in with a choice of western engines. It was not much of a succes, being just populour in Russia and the CIA.
But thats changed now, the TU 204 is a great aircraft with western engines and avionics on offer but has very few orders, but this time its not due to people not interested in Russian jets, but the slowness and the lythargie that the civil aviation marketers show. One of the airlines which had some TU 204s on order had to cancel half of the order as the second aircraft was late by a ‘YEAR’.
My own view is that the Russians are not giving enough funds, attention and most of all interest to there civil aviation market. Thats sad to see, Russians in the 70s showed great enthusiasm in both civil and military aviation but slowly slowly they lost almost all interest in civil aviation but kept there interest in military aviation alive.
They didnt even try to market there products properly, if you see there civil aviation history none of the aircrafts were marketed properly, but most of the aircrafts which were built in mass numbers were more built by China and India than Russia itself. China built more than 700 Y-7 which is a copy of the An 24.
Russians beet the Europeans with there TU 144, When the IL 62 was brought it was the first wide-body jetliner with a medium range. The An 74 was the first aircraft ever built with top mounted engines on the wings plus it was the first jet aircraft which could land on any surface. Russians used to build there aircrafts on specific needs, IL 62 a all-weather aircraft whcih was designed to take on any terrain, specialy the conditions of serbia. The IL 76 is a very efficient and cheap aircraft for its size, you will see most third world countries have the IL 76 in there fleet be it military or civil. The Yak 40(41?) was the first regional jet built, but its succes did not live up.
But since the the colapse of USSR, everything has gone down in the dumps. Antanov which was a major in both military and civil cargo aircrafts fell in hands of Ukraine, that was a setback to the industry. After that the economy of Russia was declining making it difficult for the aviation industry and that was understandable.
But now, Russia should pay as much attention to there civil aviation industry as they do in military aviation. They should revive up Ilyushin which has been dead after IL 96, although they had talks for making a regional transporter in colaboration with India(HAL). Tupelov, Ilyushin are majors in civil aviation in Russia but are in pathetic conditions with giving reports that they dont have funds to complete the little orders that they have from various carriers. Recently production of an An 124 for a carrier i dont rememebr was haulted due to usage of faulty parts.
What are your views on this? Dont you think they should work harder on there civil aviation industry which has great potentials.
By: KabirT - 25th October 2002 at 16:31
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
Royal Nepal only has 2 aircrafts so nothing major.
By: Saab 2000 - 25th October 2002 at 16:06
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
Only 3 aircraft?Its good that airlines are interested especially an airline like Royal Nepal who has turned to western aircraft in recent years for the major aircraft of their fleet (mainly 757s)
However, the fact that it is unlikely that you have a secured delivery date is a real put off to airlines wishing to buy the TU-204 aircraft.Then we get back to our main discussion.If more finance was to be given by the Russian government then we could see a success.
The TU-204 has been been delivered to over a dozen carriers now and is operated in 30 countries.I really do hope that other airlines will buy these aircraft and see their benefits compared to the 757 and A321.
For some of the comparisons see:
http://www.sirocco.ru/comparison.htm
By: KabirT - 24th October 2002 at 16:06
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
The latest airline to show interest in TU 204 is Royal Nepal. The ac is great but then the other things should not be sidelined….aircrafts should not be a year late like its happening in the case of the 204. Didi u know last year Russia produced just 3 civil aircrafts…all TU 204s.
By: Saab 2000 - 24th October 2002 at 15:57
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
The success of the TU-204 with TNT then, suggests that in many ways the aircraft are just as advantageous and beneficial to a western airline, than an aircraft such as the 757. Air Cairo seems to have had success with the aircraft also, so it could be that the aircraft has a future as being a cargo airline.
Its cheaper than its western equivalent and I would think offers just as good space for cargo and performance therefore it would seem it would be a reliable and good aircraft.
Hopefully Channel Express will show more interest in the aircraft.
By: KabirT - 24th October 2002 at 15:38
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
Yes TNT seemed to be impressed with there TU 204…..i am sayin according to the statemenst they made after its induction.
By: Saab 2000 - 24th October 2002 at 15:07
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
It would be nice to see western airlines operating the TU-204 even if it is just to carry cargo.Have the TU-204s so far been a success for TNT?
By: KabirT - 24th October 2002 at 09:26
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
Leasing is not a bad idea for these countries…but prob. is companys like GECAS etc. again dont trust Russian airliners….till now no company in Russia offers the TU 204 for leasing.
By: wysiwyg - 23rd October 2002 at 21:56
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
Wasn’t there talk a few months ago of Channel Express operating a Tu-204 on a trial basis in a cargo role. Anyone got any info?
By: Saab 2000 - 23rd October 2002 at 18:24
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-10-02 AT 06:26 PM (GMT)]Yes I agree that aircraft like the TU-204 would be a feasible option for countries such as Cuba, but the problem is that new aircraft are extremely expensive and do airlines such as Cubana have the money for them?
If you look at the current Cubana fleet it consists of mainly old Soviet aircraft.5 An-24, 2 Yak-42,5 IL-62 and 1 IL-76.
These aircraft are past their usage age and have been retired by many former operators. They are in poor quality because of the maintenance by the airline, really can they afford to buy and operate new aircraft considering their current operations?
The A320s and DC-10 are on wet lease and not owned by the company. Therefore it seems new aircraft are going to be a costly project.
If they were to buy new aircraft then there is the aspect of the maintaining of them. That is how many airlines aircraft in third world countries have got in to the condition they are now-because of poor maintenance. This therefore, gives Soviet aircraft their reputation.
By: KabirT - 23rd October 2002 at 15:39
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
I agree with you Saab when you say TU 204 can compete well with A321 and B757. Speicaly in countries like Cuba etc. that badly need a fleet renewal.
By: KabirT - 23rd October 2002 at 09:24
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
ahh yes Siberia…typing error…thanx Bhoy.
By: Bhoy - 22nd October 2002 at 18:46
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
>Russians used
>to build there aircrafts on specific needs, IL 62 a
>all-weather aircraft whcih was designed to take on any
>terrain, specialy the conditions of serbia.
Do you mean Siberia? Serbia’s part of teh former Yugoslavia.
By: Saab 2000 - 22nd October 2002 at 18:42
RE: The Russian Civil Aviation Industry in shambles!
The CIS aviation industry certainly does need investment by their countries government. It has been obvious for years. You have beauties like the TU-204 coming out of Russia, yet because of reliability its unlikely that many airlines will opt to buy these aircraft.
If no steps are to be taken by the Russian Government (or others, Ukraine for example) to curb the problem of unreliability in factors such as receivership, marketing and even down to manufacturing with parts, then the state of the aviation industry will continue to decrease with dreadful consequences.
It costs a lot of money to buy all the parts and assemble the aircraft. Russian manufacturers are cash-strapped and without the finance they cannot afford to build planes in mass production and so we get this problem of unreliability of delivery.
The Russian aircraft have a large market. They are cheap and once flying, if maintained properly, are very reliable. To third world countries this is just the right type of aircraft you want, so the market is there, stretching from the Far East in to the former USSR and Africa.
If they can get a much needed cash injection then they have potential, maybe not against the big boys like Airbus and Boeing but in their own niche market.
The TU-204 is a beautiful aircraft, as I said earlier, it could compete with the A321 or 757 as shown by orders by TNT. The technology is much the same (fly by wire I believe?) and they have western engines, there is nothing stopping Tupolev, selling this aircraft except the financing.
By the way,well done on an interesting topic 🙂
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October 22, 2002 at 4:50 pm