Am I the only one who thinks that the quick and decisive finger pointing at the Captain as being responsible for the sinking of the Concordia as a little too quick and convenient?
There are open questions, such as: Were the rocks it hit really not charted? Did the electrical issues contribute or even directly cause the collision? Did the Captain really abandon ship before most of the passengers?
Is it ok to point the blame only at the Captain? Sure, as Captain, the buck stops with him. But he’s already being charged (And in many papers, convicted) with manslaughter. The ship hadn’t even finished sinking and all fingers were pointing at him.
Could he perhaps be a convenient scapegoat?
I just do not like it when people are named and shamed before due process is followed.
What am I on about?
What planet have you been on?
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 18:48
Kev, I’m afraid to say this, but all I see here is you being as prejudice and unreasonable as the people I’ve seen you taking to task for on therese forums. Whatever happened to due process?
There is no denying, it was chaos that evening.
However, in chaotic scenes, some things will appear to be what they are not.So far, all we have to go by is what the media are feeding us and statements from hostile witnesses. In that audio recording between Schettino and the coast guard, he was clearly not being given a chance to explain what was going on. The coast guard clearly judged him from a far and were far from constructive in their communication with him.
He’s admitted making mistakes but stands firm that he did not abandon the ship and its passengers. There are accounts of him staying beside the ship in a boat. Once the ship was dark and listing heavily, what good would have come from his clambering back aboard?
Also, where was the Captain when the initial collision took place? I read reports that had him at the dinner table. Then I read people comdemning him for not being on the bridge.
It’s convenient that people forget Cruise Captain’s regularly eat dinner with the guests. Friday the 13th was no different aboad the Concordia than any other cruise ship in that respect.Again, I’m not saying the man has no blame to take, but let’s not call him names and prejudge him before the investigation is complete.
agreed !! there is little being said about the woman that has stated she was on the bridge , an ex company employee and stated he and others did everything possible to save as many lives as possible before leaving
there are two sides to every story presently we are being delivered one side !!
By: Bmused55 - 19th January 2012 at 18:32
Do you know any of the dead personally?
He has been shown by the previous transcripts to be, shall we say, less than competent (I suspect that’s being kind) and if this newspaper report is correct he, in one sentence, both admits culpability “I ordered the turn too late.” and in the next breath tries to suggest that he doesn’t know “why it happened.” Might it not be the simple fact that he was doing something he shouldn’t have done in an area where he shouldn’t have done it? And because of that simple fact, somewhere in the region of 35 people have paid for those mistakes with their lives.
Sandy.
You know just as much (or as little) as I do. All either of us are doing are voicing opinions onn the news as it is reported. But then again, as we all know, opinions are just like a*seholes, in as much as that everyone has one. Either of us or even both of us may be wrong in our opinions, only time will tell. But for now, the evidence presented against Captain Schettino is pretty compelling.
Regards,
kev35
Kev, I’m afraid to say this, but all I see here is you being as prejudice and unreasonable as the people I’ve seen you taking to task for on therese forums. Whatever happened to due process?
There is no denying, it was chaos that evening.
However, in chaotic scenes, some things will appear to be what they are not.
So far, all we have to go by is what the media are feeding us and statements from hostile witnesses. In that audio recording between Schettino and the coast guard, he was clearly not being given a chance to explain what was going on. The coast guard clearly judged him from a far and were far from constructive in their communication with him. In fact, the communicating coast guard even showed severe prejudice by stating “I will make sure you get in trouble”. He heckled Schettino all the way through the recording.
I’m not for one second saying Schettino is blameless. Indeed, he’s admitted making mistakes but stands firm that he did not abandon the ship and its passengers. There are accounts of him staying beside the ship in a boat. Once the ship was dark and listing heavily, what good would have come from his clambering back aboard?
Also, where was the Captain when the initial collision took place? I read reports that had him at the dinner table. Then I read people comdemning him for not being on the bridge.
It’s convenient that people forget Cruise Captain’s regularly eat dinner with the guests. Friday the 13th was no different aboad the Concordia than any other cruise ship in that respect.
Again, I’m not saying the man has no blame to take, but let’s not call him names and prejudge him before the investigation is complete.
By: Lincoln 7 - 19th January 2012 at 17:46
[QUOTE=Bob;1847252]Italian maritime law (apparently) states the captain is last off his vessel.
Many ships use handheld radios to communicate between crew members – even they work when the electric is off.
Defend him all you want – he caused the disaster by his poor seamanship.
Bob I agree with your comments.Hand held comms are issued, and in fact I still have a couple of Icoms myself, I would never go to Sea without them, also my fixed radio on chanel 16, just in case. Believe me, the Coastguards would have known exactly what was going on, they have Satellite info plus radar, and I would be very surprised if the Captain was not warned pre accident, by the Coastguards, that he was too close to the shore,They would also have known by the same method that he was sailing too close to the rocks, one can only presume the Charts were old and no updates had been done, close inshore, as well as rocks, there may well have been sandbars to evade.
A monumental cockup by any standards, and one which should never have happened.
Jim.
Lincoln .7
By: Bob - 19th January 2012 at 17:28
I wouldn’t claim to be a keyboard warrior – and I think I’ll stick to Andrex for the wiping…
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 17:09
Italian maritime law (apparently) states the captain is last off his vessel.
Many ships use handheld radios to communicate between crew members – even they work when the electric is off.
Defend him all you want – he caused the disaster by his poor seamanship.
A ship striking the dock while manouvering in high winds is hardly the same as dredging up half the coastline as you showed off to your mate on shore.
but you my friend are the same as i !! a keyboard warrior !!
that is why there are long lasting legal enquiries to get all sides versions before making a decision
things aren’t always as they seem till they have done so
the best thing to remember is to take everything you hear on tv and read in the papers and wipe yer ars* on it
it isn’t that long ago that iraq had weapons of mass destruction and liverpool fans were urinating on and pickpocketing thier own dead at hillsborough according to the media !!
By: Bob - 19th January 2012 at 16:42
Italian maritime law (apparently) states the captain is last off his vessel.
Many ships use handheld radios to communicate between crew members – even they work when the electric is off.
Defend him all you want – he caused the disaster by his poor seamanship.
A ship striking the dock while manouvering in high winds is hardly the same as dredging up half the coastline as you showed off to your mate on shore.
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 16:09
but it is all people saying he should stay with the ship in the old fashion manner ..
in reality what could he have done in that situation that others couldn’t have done
with no electric for communications there is the secondary method at sea of sending runners it doesn’t take a great angle on deck to make this impractical and fruitless
a better option as shore was so close could well have been to opperate directions from shore ( but a pompus know all coast guard nowhere near the scene may well have put paid to it !! )
yep the coast guard may also be a contributing factor !! he was shouting and ordering him about with no knowledge of the situation as it seems he was in a cosy control room many miles away with no direct understanding of events and just going off the ideals of many !!
lets not forget the herald of free enterprise was firmly with the captains blame , until it was discovered there was no way of knowing the doors were shut on the bridge and it was company policy and crew sloppiness that sank it !!
By: paul178 - 19th January 2012 at 15:51
If this is true there is no defence for the Captain and his cohorts
“‘Let down’
Some 300 Philippine crew members of the Costa Concordia have arrived back in Manila.
They looked visibly shaken by their ordeal, says the BBC’s Kate McGeown in the capital.
Some crew members said they did their job well, making sure their passengers were safe, but found the captain and officers had already left the ship by the time the “abandon ship” message was given. They said they felt angry and let down.
“It’s… horrible because it is supposed to be the captain to [be] the last one to stay on the ship if there is a collision like this and not the passengers and the crew members,” Andrew Bacud, a steward on the ship, told the BBC. “
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 15:44
apparently the ship wasn’t new to accidents either wich could possibly pose the question of the company cutting corners too !!
2008 bow damage
On 22 November 2008, Costa Concordia suffered damage to her bow when high winds over the Sicilian city of Palermo pushed the ship against its dock. There were no injuries and repairs started soon after.[13][14]
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 14:38
The whole point is if he had NOT deviated from the prescribed course the vessel would not have hit ANY rocks and this tragedy would not have occurred. There is only one person responsible for that, Captain Schettino.
tornado suggests that perhaps “he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship.” This is arrant nonsense as by his own admission he FELL into a lifeboat. I would imagine that it is not the responsibility of the Captain to runaround and climb” up and down through water fire and sh*t till every last soul was off”I would suggest his role was to co-ordinate what was happening aboard the vessel and maintain communications with the rescue services. If he was able to do that from a lifeboat it is indeed fortunate that he FELL into one.
Regards,
kev35
given that practicaly all communications on a ship that size would probably have to be electronic means just how much communication after the power failure was available to him
myself personaly i do not know where the ships communications rooms were
how do we know for sure he hadn’t already passed the abandon ship message
there are too many variables for us to presume before an enquiry
to me the he did this he did that is all heresay , even saying he fell in the lifeboat is i feel not the full story
we realy do need to hear a full hearing
maybe it was off course but also not something or an area he was unfammiliar with as the company had done it before
maybe with the same ship and captain
lets not forget the old saying ” while they’re picking on him they’re leaving me alone !!” and also think of the crew and company around him that may well be hiding behind it !!
By: Bob - 19th January 2012 at 14:17
Of course one cannot predict how one would act in a situation like this.
There are people who act in a non selfish manner and help others, be they women, children or the elderly. Sometimes doing so costs them their life. They may be called a hero or a fool depending on your outlook….
By: T-21 - 19th January 2012 at 14:08
Yes he deviated off course its happened ! fait accompli…. Now we must look to the investigation and much better cruise ship safety practices to stop this happening in the future. Sh*t happens.
By: kev35 - 19th January 2012 at 13:48
Instead of speculating I urge everyone to read an article in todays Daily Telegraph “Is human weakness a crime ?” by Theodore Dalrymple.
I quote ” Can we be sure that if Captain Schettino had kept calm and carried on,fewer people would have died ?
The whole point is if he had NOT deviated from the prescribed course the vessel would not have hit ANY rocks and this tragedy would not have occurred. There is only one person responsible for that, Captain Schettino.
tornado suggests that perhaps “he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship.” This is arrant nonsense as by his own admission he FELL into a lifeboat. I would imagine that it is not the responsibility of the Captain to runaround and climb” up and down through water fire and sh*t till every last soul was off”I would suggest his role was to co-ordinate what was happening aboard the vessel and maintain communications with the rescue services. If he was able to do that from a lifeboat it is indeed fortunate that he FELL into one.
Regards,
kev35
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 13:26
the thing is most are very quick to ridicule him , saying the old male bravado thing of a captain must go down with his ship !!
easy to type
but i put myself in that position my romantic and chivalrous male bravado side says i’d stick with the ship climb up and down through water fire and sh*t till every last soul was off
but then i think of the actual reality where i’d probably be just as scared as everyone else and human natures self preservation instinct would take over
therefore i would get off at the first possibility
comparisons to the titanic are not helping either the titanic was in the middle of the atlantic at night in freezing conditions with nowhere else to go to some degree it made sense for smith to stay where he was !!
the concordia was a short swim to shore in nowhere near the same conditions
By: Bob - 19th January 2012 at 13:07
On the news now that crew members allege that the captain was in a rescue boat before the order to abandon ship was given – maybe he was testing them for seaworthiness….
By: Bruggen 130 - 19th January 2012 at 11:59
Sinking?
be realistic !! what on earth could one man do staying on board a ship on its side ??
the coast guard transcripts from a coastguard far removed from the scene are far from helpful , i believe the coastguard was 100’s of miles away
how on earth does the captain get around a ship on its side that is 50% submerged to give useful information ???
it is also like the old boll*cks of women and children first , i bet that tradition didn’t stand in this case but are we hearing passengers condemed ??
my guess is he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship
he is better alive and at the enquiry than dead and no further use
being arrested for manslaughter is standard procedure over there after fatal accidents it tells me little other than the police are following enquiries
it is all being dropped on one individual with little mention that the company was apparently encourage it to wave at directors etc and to make the companys ships give an impressive display to people on shore at night
who knows it may have been a company directive that the captain did not like following and may have feared something like this for many years
after all the company seems to be an exceptionaly quiet party in this !! maybe they are happy for him to take the blame !!
I agree, he’s better alive than dead, and also the ship didn’t sink it ran aground and fell over:rolleyes: there is a big difference. most captains don’t get the chance to reboard a ship that has actually sunk, as in under the water. All that bull about women and children first, give me a break, 99% of people think only of there own a%se.
By: Bob - 19th January 2012 at 11:50
be realistic !! what on earth could one man do staying on board a ship on its side ??
Sounds like he jumped ship/”fell into” a lifeboat BEFORE the ship keeled over (lifeboats cannot be launched from a vessel on it’s side…). The captain has a duty of care to his passengers and to his crew – it should be his role to ensure that emergency procedures are implemented, unless he is incapable of doing so through injury or death.
it is also like the old boll*cks of women and children first , i bet that tradition didn’t stand in this case but are we hearing passengers condemed ??
Again, from eyewitness reports the crew were not exactly sticking to that rule of maritime chivalry…
my guess is he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship
I suspect that many ship’s captains would have remained standing on the upturned hull until they had evacuated all survivors. No one expects him to dive into the submerged vessel, ala disaster movie scenario, to rescue some fair maiden, but getting everyone off might be a consideration over saving your own skin…
he is better alive and at the enquiry than dead and no further use
True – must be why he leapt into the nearest lifeboat…
it is all being dropped on one individual with little mention that the company was apparently encourage it to wave at directors etc and to make the companys ships give an impressive display to people on shore at night
who knows it may have been a company directive that the captain did not like following and may have feared something like this for many years
after all the company seems to be an exceptionaly quiet party in this !! maybe they are happy for him to take the blame !!
Bottom line is he was master of this vessel – Richard Branson could order one of his pilots to do a barrel roll in one of his 747s – carrying out that order does not remove the captain’s responsibilty for the safety of his passengers, crew and aircraft.
Showboating a vessel of this size, as close to land as he did, has resulted in the death of +30 people and the loss of a multimillion pound ship…
By: T-21 - 19th January 2012 at 11:40
Instead of speculating I urge everyone to read an article in todays Daily Telegraph “Is human weakness a crime ?” by Theodore Dalrymple.
I quote ” Can we be sure that if Captain Schettino had kept calm and carried on,fewer people would have died ?
By: tornado64 - 19th January 2012 at 11:06
be realistic !! what on earth could one man do staying on board a ship on its side ??
the coast guard transcripts from a coastguard far removed from the scene are far from helpful , i believe the coastguard was 100’s of miles away
how on earth does the captain get around a ship on its side that is 50% submerged to give useful information ???
it is also like the old boll*cks of women and children first , i bet that tradition didn’t stand in this case but are we hearing passengers condemed ??
my guess is he stayed till he was no further use then abandoned ship
he is better alive and at the enquiry than dead and no further use
being arrested for manslaughter is standard procedure over there after fatal accidents it tells me little other than the police are following enquiries
it is all being dropped on one individual with little mention that the company was apparently encourage it to wave at directors etc and to make the companys ships give an impressive display to people on shore at night
who knows it may have been a company directive that the captain did not like following and may have feared something like this for many years
after all the company seems to be an exceptionaly quiet party in this !! maybe they are happy for him to take the blame !!
By: spitfireman - 19th January 2012 at 10:54
I agree with Kev here, he is accountable for the sinking of his vessel.
For someone who fell into a lifeboat, its remarkable he suffered no injuries.
They set sail without instructing the passengers where to muster in the event of an emergency…..they were due to do this the following day.
According to 2 i/c, he was on the bridge at the time of the accident.
He deviates from the prescibed course. (without authority)
He hits a rock.
He abandons ship early.
He kills 30+ people.
He’s an a@se.
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January 16, 2012 at 1:47 pm