The ten worst Britons

Edit: Post cleared before it starts World War III :diablo:

Fair point, Andy.

However, given the relative populations of the nations concerned I’m sure you will agree that the ANZAC losses were proportionately extremely heavy.

And you’re right about Cromwell, although Charles I wasn’t much better for the nation as a whole.

And I certainly wasn’t attempting to downplay the contribution the ANZACS made to that campaign and thanks to Keith Murdoch and a few others the birth of two nations started there.
A year later on the Somme at Pozieres the Australian divisions were bled almost white but this never gets the same attention as Gallipoli.
Mainly I suppose because the peninsular is such a small, almost intimate battlefield, cut off from almost everything else.
This gives it a very unique atmosphere and feeling.
A…

The Dardanelles campaign was extremely unpleasant if you happened to be at ANZAC Cove and that little encounter killed a lot of Australians and Kiwi’s. However far more Brits died at Gallipoli than did colonials and even the French (that much maligned nation) lost more more there than the ANZACS.

Fair point, Andy.

However, given the relative populations of the nations concerned I’m sure you will agree that the ANZAC losses were proportionately extremely heavy.

And you’re right about Cromwell, although Charles I wasn’t much better for the nation as a whole.

Nah, she was great Andy. That’s the last time we were LED.

Yes, right up the garden path and then down the toilet.

Ren Frew
I thought of Cromwell too and then thought I didn’t have to live through his times. I lived through Thatcherism though–That’s why I chose her.

As far as worst Briton goes has anyone thought of Margaret Thatcher???

Well the thought did cross my mind, I’ve made my feelings clear about the woman before. Unfortunately I seemed to be in a minority, surrounded by “how dare you sir’s”. 😀

Could I instead nominate Oliver Cromwell, on behalf of the Irish members of my family…. ?

I should think it most likely he wanted to return to the Cavalry to fight the Germans – again. Dashed good sport the last time, eh? What?

Mosley my ****. You base all of that on the period of being a fascist and leader of them? You are, of course, aware that Mosley had the same politics as many Britons – some who were decorated and respected in the First and Second World Wars? being fascist doesn’t make you a Nazi and doesn’t make you a traitor. You know of course that he was an Officer in the 16th Lancers (my Great Grandfathers regiment) before going to the RFC and back again don’t you? That he served his country through the First World war? That to judge history with modern eyes is both stupid and irrelevant? That he was considered for leadership of the labour party? That this country was intolerant and anti-semitic irrespective of him?

there were far worse than Mosley, far worse.

If my memory serves me right he did want to fight for Britain against his German ‘chums’ when the war started, after he was interned; whether this was because he felt it was his duty to fight for his homeland, or he thought he might be able to escape to the nazis if given such freedom, or maybehe thought he could do more for his cause by not being incarcerated for the duration I do not know.

Anyway, it is always said that the history books are written by the winners, so Moseley was hardly going to be given a halo for this ‘charity’ work…:rolleyes:

Flood

Nah, she was great Andy. That’s the last time we were LED.

My point is that in a few years time she will be in the list of the worst Britons.

That’s OK then.
I thought she could already be considered.

My point is that in a few years time she will be in the list of the worst Britons.

Margaret Thatcher = Well, the so-called “liberal economy” somehow destroyed British society (disproportionately distributed income) and also the “rebate” was a few days ago abandoned by Antonio Blair (I guess the British are now very happy with it…)

and your point is??

Margaret Thatcher = Well, the so-called “liberal economy” somehow destroyed British society (disproportionately distributed income) and also the “rebate” was a few days ago abandoned by Antonio Blair (I guess the British are now very happy with it…)

“And the Blackshirts were just a male choral and folk-dance society, were they?”
No, that was the brownshirts.
“The man was an opportunist fascist Nazi-loving thug – end of story.”
opportunist? On what grounds? Fascist? yes. Nazi-loving? He had friends who were Nazis. Thug? Quantify thug please.
“by their friends shall ye know them.”
Nope, that’s a generalised assumption, and therefore prejudiced.
Good list Mr Onthefence.

Of course with the benefit of hindsight everyone was anti-Nazi in 1945 and anti Semitism became a bad word.
All this was not strangely the case in the thirties when both sympathy for the Nazi’s and anti Semitism weren’t uncommon–here or elsewhere, especially among the middle classes.

So, are we going to include all of those along with Mosley–who was I admit a somewhat extreme case.

Oh, and Grey Area.
Just for the minute book.
The Dardanelles campaign was extremely unpleasant if you happened to be at ANZAC Cove and that little encounter killed a lot of Australians and Kiwi’s. However far more Brits died at Gallipoli than did colonials and even the French (that much maligned nation) lost more more there than the ANZACS.

As far as worst Briton goes has anyone thought of Margaret Thatcher???

Not to mention his readiness to order British troops to fire upon British citizens on British soil, Kev. Or his calamitous Dardanelles campaign in WW1 that cost our Australian and New Zealander allies so dear.

I don’t think anyone would claim that Churchill was a nice man. In fact, if he hadn’t written so much of our history himself, one suspects that his reputation would be rather more equivocal.

One thing, however, is for certain. He was a truly great Briton, warts and all.

By comparison, Mosley and Joyce were squalid little men who were unfit to lace his boots. I’ll leave it to others to justify them and seek to re-write history in their favour. :rolleyes:

“And the Blackshirts were just a male choral and folk-dance society, were they?”

No, that was the brownshirts.

“The man was an opportunist fascist Nazi-loving thug – end of story.”

opportunist? On what grounds? Fascist? yes. Nazi-loving? He had friends who were Nazis. Thug? Quantify thug please.

“by their friends shall ye know them.”

Nope, that’s a generalised assumption, and therefore prejudiced.

Good list Mr Onthefence.

Grey Area.

This “veneer of respectability” you attribute to Mosley. Would that apply equally to Winston Churchill who was an active supporter of the Eugenics Movement in the period shortly before the Great War?

Regards,

kev35

It’s always the “baddies” that are the more interesting, isn’t it?

One of the main reasons that Mosley belongs on that list is the veneer of respectability that he gave to anti-semitism and xenophobia, wrapping himself in the Union Flag while preaching filth and hatred. A respectability that still lingers even to this day among those of a certain mindset.

Sad but true.

If I remember correctly, Joyce had a British Passport which was in fact invalid because of the simple fact that on his declaration he stated he was born in the British Isles, when, as previously stated, he was American by birth. Therefore, it was suggested that the British Authorities could not try him for treason as he was not a British National and that in effect he was hanged becuse of an illegal declaration on his passport. Interestingly, when arrested, he was shot in the buttocks. he stood by his principles and never tried, during his trial, to deny his loyalty the the Third Reich.

His wife, incidentally, could, and possibly should, have been tried, convicted and hanged for treason, but this never happened.

Regards,

kev35

Joyce was granted German citizenship in 1940, which actually raises the somewhat vexed question of whether or not his propaganda broadcasts actually constituted treason at all if he was a German citizen when he made them.

But I digress…… and he was strung up anyway.

As you so rightly say, the important thing is that we learn the lesson of history.

One of the main reasons that Mosley belongs on that list is the veneer of respectability that he gave to anti-semitism and xenophobia, wrapping himself in the Union Flag while preaching filth and hatred. A respectability that still lingers even to this day among those of a certain mindset.

My nomination for Baddest Briton? Sir Robert Walpole, who turned political patronage and corruption into an economic instution to the ultimate detriment of his nation.

Second prize – the traitor George Washington and his rebellious cronies. 😀