The untold Battle of Britain

The difference was that in 1940 the only internationally recognised French government was at Vichy and not at war with Germany (actually allied with it), so any Frenchman wishing to fight alongside Britain was legally speaking a traitor of his state/government.

This is where my confusion lies as I was sure that ‘Free French’ forces were operating, and were recognised (by Britain, if not by the United States), much earlier, while the Vichy government was still very much in power in France. I know for example that the French submarine Surcouf was boarded in Plymouth harbour (in an infamous incident) by Royal Marines on 3rd July 1940 (at the same time as Royal Navy battleships were shelling a fleet loyal to the Vichy government at Mers-el-Kébir) and was operating under the Free French flag shortly afterwards. Later in July 1941 when Surcouf was refitted in the United States the refit (costing $800,000) was paid for under the Anglo-American Lend-Lease programme.

I did not know that there was no actual surrender of Polish forces in 1939 (confusing this with the surrender of Warsaw)!

Chatting to my Dad at the w/e – it reckons that ‘Captain’ Kent’s AFC was sewed on back to front or upside down…

He does tend to have an eye for these things!!! :rolleyes:

I’m not really sure I understand the difference between the Polish government in exile and the Free French other than perhaps the Vichy government kept their gold reserves in France and the Poles somehow managed to get theirs to Britain (or elsewhere).

The difference was that in 1940 the only internationally recognised French government was at Vichy and not at war with Germany (actually allied with it), so any Frenchman wishing to fight alongside Britain was legally speaking a traitor of his state/government. The same (albeit in a different form) legally applied to the Czechs, for example. Therefore they had to join (at least oficially/legally) British forces as foreign volunteers, rather than form their own national forces. At the same time the only internationally recognised Polish government was the government in exile based in Britain, and Polish government/state never surrendered to Germany, so Poles who wanted to fight the Germans did it in their own national forces under the official Polish government.
Of course after allied landings in North Africa the French government situation has changed, and the ‘Free French’ forces were amalgamated with the ‘Vichy French’ forces.
Then in 1945 the Polish forces’ situation changed the other way round after western allies recognised the communist controlled government in Poland and withdrew recognition of the government in exile.

Dear Antoni,
All very interesting.

Can you please attribute whether the majority content is your own independent research and work, or uses others content to some degree?

Secondly, the ‘Anglo Polish Agreement’ reads like an official text – is it, and if so what is your source for it? I’d presume there is a Polish language version, and at the very least, like most bi-lingual legal documents, it’s important to be clear which version is the legally authoritative text, or if different, how.

That might seem picky, but unattributed and information without citation is always to be treated as unverified. For a little more detail, the quality and credibility enters another league.

I also find the 20 – 25% figure remarkable at least without detail. If nothing else, the 5% margin – given the numbers in question – is massive.

Some of the disputation sounds very like that which the Commonwealth countries found with their ‘Section XV’ (15) Squadrons and the rather pragmatic and casual way the British used and directed the squadrons and personnel, often against the wishes of the airmen’s native governments or interests.

Of course that tends to be marginalised in the British history books, but that’s why this kind of discussion is interesting – other points of view on what you thought you knew.

Regards,

Poland had wanted independent status for its Air Force as it did not want to see its personnel distributed throughout the RAF. Its intention was that the PAF would return home able to defend the Polish government. When it came to negotiating with the British it was is size and money that counted not any legal complications over International recognition…

Thank you for taking the trouble to post such a long and interesting reply. It seems many of my preconceptions about Polish squadrons in the RAF (or rather under RAF operational control I should say) were totally wrong.

The West never recognised the DDR but that never stopped it having an Army, Navy and Air Force.

Yes, but then the DDR had East Germany to operate those forces from; it may not have been recognised by the West but its possession was undisputed. The situation with the Polish government in exile, and its forces, was different after the war, that is after the new British government recognised communist Poland.

Therein lies the problem; one country, two governments…..and Britain recognised the government in possession of the country (and the one with the backing of the Soviets).

Before the Soviet Union and the USA entered the war, Polish Armed Forces constituted about 20 to 25 per cent of the forces available to Britain.

Surely there must be some caveat that applies to this statement. I know Britain experienced some dark times during the war but I’m sure that at no time did Polish forces account for 20% – 25% of the total ‘available to Britain’. Even in terms of air forces alone I’m sure Polish forces didn’t account for 20% – 25% of the RAF.

Just a little comment on the ‘Capt Kent’ thing.
ISTR his later RAF rank was Group Captain,that is a rank which confuses many people who are not familiar with the RAF rank structure,I have heard /seen quite a few ‘Groupies’ referred to as Captain before.

rgds baz

It also throws up an interesting fact (Wikipedia reservations apply) in that Polish ‘airmen’ did take part in the parade, albeit in groups of RAF personnel.

To me that throws up an interesting question in that Polish aircrew fought during the Battle-of-Britain and throughout the war in RAF squadrons. Although these are often called ‘Polish’ squadrons, to what extent were they actually Polish; were any of the aircraft paid for by the Polish government in exile, were any of the other costs, including pilot’s pay, met in this way?

To me at least, this possibly played a part in the ‘exclusion’ from the parade; were Polish pilots expecting to parade in Polish uniforms and under Polish flags?

On 5th August 1940 the (new) Anglo-Polish Agreement concerning the organisation and employment of Polish Land and Air Forces was signed by both Governments. This established the Polish Air Force with independent status, integrated with, and under the operational control of the RAF. By this agreement the PAF became an integral part of the Polish Armed Forces and all Polish airmen that had enlisted in the RAFVR were released to join the PAF. They were required to take an oath of allegiance only to the Polish Republic and not King George VI. For practical and operational reasons the PAF was still to be incorporated in the RAF in organisation, supply, discipline and service matters. RAF uniforms with Polish and British rank insignia were introduced and all previous restrictions on wearing Polish badges were removed. Aircraft were to be marked according to RAF regulations. As, at this time, it was illegal for foreign armed forces to operate in the United Kingdom an act of parliament had to be passed. On 22nd August 1940 the Allied Forces Act was passed by Parliament legalising the PAF establishment in Great Britain. As the PAF was given independent status the RAF felt it necessary to separate PAF squadrons from the rest of the RAF by giving them numbers starting from 300.

The Air Forces Britain’s other allies and Associated Powers did not have independent status and their squadrons were considered to be part of the RAF and their personnel were enlisted in the RAFVR. There were agreements about where the squadrons could be used. E.g., Norway’s forces in exile would be used ‘either for the defence of the United Kingdom or for the purposes of regaining Norway.’ As a result, Norway had to be ‘persuaded’ to join 2nd TAF and take part in Operation Overlord.

Poland had wanted independent status for its Air Force as it did not want to see its personnel distributed throughout the RAF. Its intention was that the PAF would return home able to defend the Polish government. When it came to negotiating with the British it was is size and money that counted not any legal complications over International recognition. The West never recognised the DDR but that never stopped it having an Army, Navy and Air Force. That Poland was able to obtain independent status was largely down to it having the resources to become an Air Force operating within an Air Force with its own ground crew, training establishments, Staff College etc. The other nations required much technical assistance from the RAF to form national squadrons. The Czechs in particular were heavily dependent on British ground crews. For this reason they pushed into the RAFVR.

The Czech, Norwegians, Dutch, and Belgians all wanted independent status but the British government and RAF resisted. Some concessions were granted such as forming a national section in the RAFVR and that they would always fight together and not be dispersed within the RAF. The Belgians were allowed to wear Belgian uniform when off duty. Both the Dutch and Belgians had wanted RAF command to cease the moment they crossed into their territory but the Air Ministry refused.

The two Dutch Coastal Command squadrons were granted independent status in the Royal Netherlands Naval Air Services by the Air Ministry largely because the Dutch had a golden purse to finance them and also because they could supply nearly all of their own ground crew. They had no success, however, when 322 Fighter Squadron was formed at Woodvale in June 1943. The British insisted it be within the RAFVR, giving independent status to a unit so small would encourage other nations to seek similar status for their own, lager, air forces.

All Britain’s allies and cobelligerents (those nations with which Britain had signed a treaty were called allies, those with which Britain did not have a treaty were termed a cobelligerent) were expected to pay the costs of their armed services and civilian costs as well. After D-Day, liberated countries were required to bear the costs of the RAF bases on their soil.

The Dutch had deep pockets which put them in a strong bargaining position with the British. Norway had a large merchant fleet, the fees from which largely financed the war for them and they required no financial assistance from Britain.

Other countries had to take extensive financial credits to fund their contributions. HM Treasury regularly invoiced the foreign governments. The VHA archives in Prague are full of such documents. A few weeks after the first two Czechoslovak Hurricanes were lost in the BoB they were presented with an invoice for £13,140 to cover aircraft costs and training. The bill for fighter ammunition used in the two years from the summer of 1940 until the end of the tax year in 1942 came to £177,236 12s 9d. By the middle of 1944 they owed about £5.5 million.

Before the Soviet Union and the USA entered the war, Polish Armed Forces constituted about 20 to 25 per cent of the forces available to Britain. The Polish bill was correspondingly much larger than the other nations. Around £5 million a year for civil costs and £20 million a year for the military. About half of this had been accepted by the Polish government in London as a genuine dept for later repayment, the rest written off under the Mutual Aid scheme. The problem for Britain at the end of the war was that it no longer recognised the London government and nobody had a clue as to whether the Warsaw government would honour the debt. In the end payment was deducted from Polish gold reserves held in Canada.

ANGLO-POLISH AGREEMENT, 5TH AUGUST, 1940

The Government of the Polish Republic and the Government of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirming their determination to prosecute the war to a successful conclusion, Recognising the importance in their common interest of maintaining the Armed Forces of Poland, Desiring to establish the principles on which those forces, under the Supreme Command of the Polish Commander-in-Chief, shall be organised for cooperation with the Allied Forces, and recalling the Agreement and Protocol signed in London on the 18th November, 1939, providing for the co-operation of certain units of the Polish Naval Forces with those of the United Kingdom, have agreed as follows:-

Article 1
The Polish Armed Forces (comprising Land, Sea and Air Forces) shall be organised and employed under British Command, in its character as the Allied High Command, as the Armed Forces of the Republic of Poland allied with the United Kingdom.

Article 2

Units of the Polish Air Force referred to in Article 1 shall be organised to operate with the Royal Air Force. The organisation of the Polish Air Force in the United Kingdom shall be extended, in accordance with the provisions of Appendix I of the present agreement, so as to utilise such Polish Air Force personnel now in the United Kingdom as may be necessary for the execution of these provisions.

Article 3

The Government of the United Kingdom shall afford their assistance in the re-constitution of the Polish Land Forces, in accordance with the conditions laid down in Appendix II of the present agreement.

Article 4

Any costs incurred by or on behalf of any Department of the Government of the United Kingdom in connection with the application of the present agreement shall be refunded out of the credit granted by His Majesty’s Government to the Polish Government to finance the cost of maintaining the Polish Military effort.
In witness whereof the undersigned, duly authorised thereto by their respective Governments, have signed the present agreement and have affixed thereto their seals. Done in London, in duplicate, in the English language the fifth day of August, 1940. A Polish text shall subsequently be agreed upon by the Contracting Governments and both texts shall be equally authentic.

APPENDIX I (RELATING TO THE POLISH AIR FORCE)

Article 1

Constitution

1. The Polish Air Force will be reorganised from those officers and men of the Polish Air Force arriving in British territory who are selected for service by a joint board composed of Polish and British representatives. The personnel selected will be required to pass a medical examination according to the normal Royal Air Force standard. This will be carried out by an Anglo-Polish medical commission.

2. Four bomber squadrons, two fighter squadrons and one Army Cooperation squadron will be formed as soon as possible, with about 200 per cent reserves of flying personnel, about 50 per cent of other personnel. Three or more additional squadrons with the same reserves will be formed as facilities become available.

3. (i) All the trained personnel of the Polish Air Force who are not required for the Squadrons now forming will be utilised as soon as possible individually or in groups in appropriate units or establishments of the Royal Air Force or in the British aircraft industry until it becomes possible to absorb them in Polish Air Force units. It is understood that Polish flying personnel not required for the squadrons now forming and for the reserves of about 200 per cent, allotted to these squadrons will be employed for operational service in units other than those of the Polish Air Force only during the present critical period and with the specific consent of the Polish Commander-in-Chief. If so employed, they will operate only from bases in territory of the United Kingdom.

(ii) All possible assistance will be given by the Royal Air Force in the expansion of the Polish Air Force and in forming further reserves for the squadrons of the Polish Air Force. Partly trained personnel, in particular pilots, will be given every opportunity to complete their training in the appropriate Royal Air Force establishments. Until training facilities are available, they will be retained with the Polish Air Force and will be given employment in ground defence duties or other work in connection with the Polish Air Force units.

(iii) Untrained personnel who are not required for service with the Royal Air Force will be at the disposal of the Polish authorities for employment with the Polish Army or otherwise.

(iv) Arrangements will be made as soon as circumstances permit to train more pilots for service with the Polish Air Force.

4. An Inspectorate of the Polish Air Force will be formed whose duty it will be to inspect the units of the Polish Air Force. The Inspectorate will communicate with the British Air Ministry on all matters relating to the work of these units. The Inspectorate will also maintain liaison, if necessary, through special liaison officers with Headquarters of the Royal Air Force Commands in which Polish Air Force Units are placed. The channel of communication between the Inspectorate and formations of the Royal Air Force will be the Directorate of Allied Cooperation in the Air Ministry.

Article 2

Employment

1. With regard to duties, rights and amenities, Polish Air Force personnel will be trained on the same footing as Royal Air Force personnel.
2. The units of the Polish Air Force will be used in the same manner as the units of the Royal Air Force, but when circumstances permit, the units of the Polish Air Force will co-operate together. One Polish Army Cooperation Squadron, when formed, will be attached to the Polish Army while operating under British Command in its character as Allied High Command, and will be entirely under the operational control of the Commander of the appropriate Polish military formation, subject to the normal flying regulations and restrictions laid down by the Royal Air Force. Other squadrons of the Polish Air Force may be used in support of the Polish Army when necessary.

Article 3

1. Except as provided in Article 2 for the employment of a Polish Army Co-operation Squadron, operational control of the Air Force units will rest entirely with the Royal Air Force Command to which they are attached

2. The stations at which units of the Polish Air Force are based will be commanded by British officers. Where a station is used solely or primarily for the accommodation of units of the Polish Air Force, there will be a Polish commanding officer who will co-operate with the British Station Commander, the latter being senior. Circumstances may arise in connection with the employment of a Polish Army Co-operation Squadron which may require variations in the application of the present paragraph.

3. Polish Air Force Units will be provided with equipment of a similar kind and on the same scales as the corresponding units of the Royal Air Force.

4. The supply, maintenance and training of all units of the Polish Air Force serving with the Royal Air Force will be organised through the normal Royal Air Force channels.

5..The numbers and gradings of the officers and men to be authorised for units of the Polish Air Force units serving with the Royal Air Force will be those which would be allowed in accordance with normal Royal Air Force practice, and Royal Air Force regulations as to qualifications of the personnel will be applied. In special circumstances Royal Air Force practice may be varied where it is in the interests of effective co-operation that this should be done. Where it is necessary for administrative convenience, certain posts may be duplicated to enable British as well as Polish personnel to be borne against them. Where it is found that suitable Polish personnel are not available to fill posts in the establishments of the Polish Air Force units, British personnel may be appointed to fill them.

6. All promotions within the approved establishment of the Polish Air Force units serving with the Royal Air Force will be made on the authority of the Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Forces.
(i) Recommendations for the promotion of officers will be forwarded to him through the normal Royal Air Force channels and will be subject to the concurrence by the appropriate Royal Air Force authorities.
(ii) Responsibility for the promotion of airmen will belong, in the first instance, to the holder of the post to which the responsibility would normally attach under Royal Air Force regulations. If such post is held by a Polish officer, the promotion will be effected forthwith. If it is held by a British officer, the recommendation for promotion will be forwarded to the Commander-in-Chief of the Polish Forces or to an officer nominated by him, in order that effect may be given to it without delay.

Article 4

Discipline

1. Personnel of the Polish Air Force serving with the Royal Air Force, whether in Polish units or individually, will be subject to Royal Air Force discipline and the Royal Air Force Law, as if they were commissioned or enlisted in the Royal Air Force, so long as they are serving with the Royal Air Force. They will be subject also to Polish Military Law, but where the terms of Polish Military Law and British Air Force Law differ, the latter will prevail.

2. Where a military court is constituted for the trial of an officer or airman of the Polish Air Force serving with the Royal Air Force, it will consist of an equal number of British and Polish officers as judges, with, in addition, a British officer as president of the court.

3. Officers and airmen of the Polish Air Force serving with the Royal Air Force will, however, be liable to be tried and punished in accordance with the laws for the time being in force of the United Kingdom or of any territory outside the United Kingdom under the authority of His Majesty’s Government in the United Kingdom for offences committed by the officer or airman against such laws.

Article 5

Pay and allowances

A detailed scale of pay and allowances for officers and men of the Polish Air Force serving with the Royal Air Force will be drawn up and agreed as soon as possible. So far as possible the rates will be based on those in force in the Royal Air Force, after allowance has been made for taxation to which British personnel are liable.

Article 6

Miscellaneous

1. The personnel of the Polish Air Force serving with the Royal Air Force will take an oath of allegiance to the Polish Republic.
2. The uniform of the Royal Air Force will be adopted as the uniform of the Polish Air Force with such distinctive Polish symbols or other badges as the Polish authorities desire. On grounds of security, rank badges of the Royal Air Force pattern will be worn and will correspond to the posts held under Royal Air Force establishment.
3. Aircraft used by the Polish Air Force while serving with the Royal Air Force will bear British military markings with a distinctive Polish marking on the fuselage.

4. The Polish Air Force ensign will be flown with the Royal Air Force ensign at all Royal Air Force stations at which units of the Polish Air Force are based.

Article 7

Any difficulties arising out of the preceding articles and any matters not covered by them will be settled, as far as possible, by direct discussion between the appropriate Polish and British authorities.

There may have also been some minor inconvenience due to the one party state, perhaps.

No Telma chicken soup at Sainsbury’s or gołąbki. at Tesco, that’s for sure.

‘Sailor’ – Do you mean Adolf Malan? I hadn’t heard about the sowester before! I thought the name came from a previous stint in the Merchant Navy.

it was a bit of both but he was known to use sowesters to fly in hat as well !!

not necessarily made up , there were a lot of pilots ( even women ferry pilots ) we mostly only hear of the top few of the few who were the outstanding ones

there were also a lot more english names than bader , tuck , et al but the others were in the shaddows of names like those ( even english )

such was the time and job you had to stand out to be a personality such as “sailor ” known for wearing a sowester ( nuts ?? ) most deffinateley as it certainly isn’t flying gear but he was remembered !!

I think you misunderstand – I wasn’t suggesting that because he was ‘unknown’ it meant he wasn’t a fighter pilot! I meant that the next generation of the family never learned the ‘gentleman’s name..

Sensitive area, please don’t ask for clarification, I’m sure you can understand – wish I hadn’t said it!

The assumption of line-shooting was more to do with him claiming to be a fighter pilot actually during the Battle of Britain (and I’m sure blokes in uniform tried that one on a lot), which – as this chap was Polish – seemed further-fetched to my friend (though his Grandma was insistent) before the documentary than it did after. Bear in mind, he knew nothing about the Battle of Britain, or even much about the war generally – which is standard for the vast majority of of the UK population.

It’s easy for those of us ‘in here’ to forget the general level of knowledge out there. It can easily seem unlikely that there would be Poles with the RAF at the time, as it did to my friend. This was the original point of my post – it was aimed at ‘them’, not ‘us’, and probably served its purpose very well.

‘Sailor’ – Do you mean Adolf Malan? I hadn’t heard about the sowester before! I thought the name came from a previous stint in the Merchant Navy.

Incidentally he now has some questions about his ‘unknown’ Polish Grandad, whom his Grandma met at a dance in North London in 1940. He’d told her he was a fighter pilot, but my friend had always thought he was making that bit up…

not necessarily made up , there were a lot of pilots ( even women ferry pilots ) we mostly only hear of the top few of the few who were the outstanding ones

there were also a lot more english names than bader , tuck , et al but the others were in the shaddows of names like those ( even english )

such was the time and job you had to stand out to be a personality such as “sailor ” known for wearing a sowester ( nuts ?? ) most deffinateley as it certainly isn’t flying gear but he was remembered !!

OK, it’s a sample of one, but my mate watched the programme rapt, and he has no interest in aviation whatsoever. He’s an intelligent guy, but he said he learned things he had no idea about. Yes, it was ‘simplified’ and ‘dramatised’ or whatever – but it was never intended for us!

Incidentally he now has some questions about his ‘unknown’ Polish Grandad, whom his Grandma met at a dance in North London in 1940. He’d told her he was a fighter pilot, but my friend had always thought he was making that bit up…

Fascinating, I had no idea that the squadrons were paid for by the government in exile; that does throw a different light on the situation. I’m not really sure I understand the difference between the Polish government in exile and the Free French other than perhaps the Vichy government kept their gold reserves in France and the Poles somehow managed to get theirs to Britain (or elsewhere).

I’d be very interested in the book, but then buying it is a whole lot easier than actually getting around to reading it!

Interesting thread.

To me that throws up an interesting question in that Polish aircrew fought during the Battle-of-Britain and throughout the war in RAF squadrons. Although these are often called ‘Polish’ squadrons, to what extent were they actually Polish; were any of the aircraft paid for by the Polish government in exile, were any of the other costs, including pilot’s pay, met in this way?

Legally speaking they were completely Polish, although falling under British operational control (in about the same manner as British troops in places like Afghanistan might fall under US operational control, for example). I believe in summer 1940, when things got hot, it took the British Parliament just a couple of days to pass a new law that made it legal for foreign troops to be based in Britain, and that was specifically to allow the Poles, the Dutch and Norwegians (IIRC) to form their own troops in UK. The Czechs and the French, on the other hand, had to join the RAF, as their own governments have (in vastly different circumstances) surrendered to Germany, so there was no way for them to form their own national forces that would be internationally recognised.
And yes, the Polish government in exile did pay for the aircraft, fuel, ammunition, for using RAF bases etc. IIRC the final balance was something like 60 odd million pound sterling paid by the Polish government in exile.
‘Airmen in Exile’ by Alan Brown is strongly recommended if you’re really interested in the subject.

I hope it isn’t my last post!

Noel Edmunds. Don’t really recall the chap, doesn’t he fly helicopters?

Glad to see you Kev.

not since his lazer eye surgery !! his old as350 lands near me regularly G-OMCC formerly G-HLEN after his wife at the time helen

i believe his last owned heli was an augusta although i don’t think it was flown much ( i may stand corrected !! )

i am utterly amazed at the tearing to pieces this is getting !!

what we have to remember is , it is a documentary made for the masses rather than enthusiasts !!

if you want 100% facts buy a book written by a enthusiast and historian

they put the story accross tremmendously for the masses !!

if it leads to B.N.P. members and promoters and the generaly uneducated morons not using jans spitfire image to promote their race hate campaigns again it may achieve something

sure there were inaccuracys ( most stuff on tv is ) due to directors not being historians but having to learn things that they may never have come accross before

of course the alternative could have been reality tv following a window cleaning company

personaly i enjoyed what they did and it was done very well as well as the traffalgar episode !!

Re the untold history of Battle of Britain

Well I never!
However did I manage without a TV for ten years? I bought books or borrowed them, fiction and fact all about the second world war. Its is a shame that the producers of these progammes (when there is so much more info available these days) can’t portray the facts properly, by not doing enough research; for what ever reason funding probably.

I think that we have difted somewhat from the point of the thread (but then what do I know) as I didn’t have a TV for all that time in the 1980’s

Lets face it you can’t please all of the people all of the time however hard any one trys?
Regards all Ant

Just as S/Ldr Paul Day, OC BBMF for many a year, was called ‘The Major’.

Something I believe that originated with a US posting.

And stayed with him as he was ‘Major Day’. I’m sure Mk.12 knows it, but for anyone else, if it just seems like a name, think about it…

Personnel in the Polish Air Force had two ranks, PAF and RAF. On their uniforms they had both Polish and RAF rank insignia. Usually the two ranks were equivalent but could be different. Flt/Lt was equal to Kapitan in the PAF and Squadron Leader to Major. I imagine that within the squadron they used their PAF rank rather than the RAF so it is quite plausible that Kent was called by them Kapitan Kentski. However I do not know that this was actual fact.

Just as S/Ldr Paul Day, OC BBMF for many a year, was called ‘The Major’.

Something I believe that originated with a US posting.

Mark

I would recommend:-

‘A question of Honour -The Kosciuszko Squadron’ by Lynne Olsen and Stanley Cloud.

Mark

This is the orginal/American title of “For Your Freedom and Ours”.