The WS-10 debate

Pulled from the LCA thread.

Stealth Spy

Originally Posted by dongdong2

1.WS-10A is not a reverse engineered Al-31FN.The WS-10A’s specification is very close to F110. The WS-10A project started in mid of 1980’s,however China got the AL-31 along with Su-27 imported from Russia in mid of 1990’s.

I dont want to derail the topic but the WS-10A is a chinese copy of the Al-31FN :

Russia reportedly had denied China the license to produce the engine locally. As the result, an indigenous engine WS-10A (came up)
http://mil.jschina.com.cn/huitong/J-10_J-11_FC-1.htm

The CAC is also trying to replace the Russian AL-31F with the indigenously developed WS-10A, which is said to be a Chinese copy of the AL-31FN.
http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/j10.asp

and both are from chinese links; and it appears that the WS-10A is a failure, because china have just ordered a several russian engines for the J-10 (on July 11th) :
read : http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=589840
http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll…120340/-1/MONEY
http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stori…/07/12/042.html
http://www.mosnews.com/money/2005/0…afighters.shtml

2.Who did tell you that FC-1 is certain of using griffo radar?? China has two very strong institutes ralated to airbrone radar. One is No.14 Insititute belongs to China’s electronics industry.Its products includes “Chinese Aegis” active phase array radar and combat system for 052C destoryer,Type147* series airborne PD radars for J-8F/H,J-10,J-11A/B,and various ground radars(web:http://www.nriet.com.cn). Another one is No.607 Insititute of China aviation industry ,that provide radars for J-8E,J-7 series, JH-7/A,etc. The newest small PD radar SY-80 built by No.607 Insititute was the winner of the bid of new batch of exported J-7PG.That meant that griffo radar was kick away from the J-7 project.(http://mil.qianlong.com/4919/2005/01/07/228@2461483.htm)

I don’t think the two insititues are not intersted in the FC-1 project.

And you may know that the integration of an active radar homing AAM(PL-12/SD-10) to a strange airborne radar system(Griffo) is not a easy thing. Plus, Is China willing to leak the SD-10’s information and interface to Italian? Definitely not. Based on commercial interests and technical facts, So it’s reasonable that FC-1 would use a Chinese radar, maybe a simplied J-10 radar or JH-7A radar with better air-to-air function.

The 052C itself is mostly plagerised, including its phased array radar and Data bus and guns and anti-sub warfare systems and propulsion systems

Read this : Its 100-millimeter gun is a copy of the fully automatic French Creusot-Loire gun.

China reportedly has purchased two advanced Russian phased array radars

this radar system may be a co-development program with the Kvant-Radiolokatsiya company of the Ukraine.

Western vendors have provided Chinese aircraft with the MIL-STD 1553B data bus, which now has been installed on new 052 DDGs.

China has used a Type-W datalink provided by France to non-NATO export customers.

Almost certainly a French DUBV-23 bow-mounted sonar dome is under the raked bow

A pair of new 30-millimeter seven-barrel close-in weapons systems looks like Dutch Goalkeeper mounts.

A Soviet 1950-vintage A-band Knife Rest early warning yagi radar antenna is aft. This antenna was not on 052B or the Luhu, but it was on the Luhai and 1990-vintage Luda upgrades and Jiangwei frigates. This seems to hint a weakness in the Aegis, which normally should perform such detection.

China is negotiating with Russia to equip future Su-30 MK2 aircraft to include the next-generation TSIMSS-1 digital datalink.

For command and control the ZJK-4 is a Chinese copy of the French Thomson-CSF TAVITAC. British-made SNTI-240 satellite communications (SATCOM) is also used.

China’s choice of a LAN could be a Russian GOST standard or a Digibus LAN used on French TAVITAC CDS aboard recent PLAN ships. Ethernet or MIL-STD 1553 already are used in avionic and army systems and easily adapt to naval equipment, which supports interoperability of forces. Display console software operating systems likely would be commercial standard versions such as Windows or VX Works that are in production in China.

ANTI-SUBMARINE SYSTEMS

The antisubmarine warfare suite would be Italian triple antisubmarine warfare torpedo tubes and 12-barrel Type-75 mortars.

The Yu-7 torpedo is a Chinese copy of the Mk-46 Mod 1

Two Type 75 (Chinese copy of the Russian RBU-1200)

The propulsion system :

>two Ukraine-made DA80/DN80 gas turbines rated at 72,600hp (55 MW) and

>two indigenous diesels (Chinese copy of the MTU 20V956TB92) rated at 8,840 hp (6.5 MW).

from :
http://www.afcea.org/signal/article….asp?a=992&z=38
http://www.sinodefence.com/navy/surface/052c.asp

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dunno about china but pakistan have certainly chosen the Griffo radar. >> The Italian Grifo S-7 fire-control radar was chosen by the PAF to equip its JF-17 Thunder >> http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/fc1.asp

and so might china because the SD-10/ PL-12 is aslo plagerised italian stuff :

The PL-12 was said to be derived from the Italian Aspide technology and integrated with active radar-homing seeker technology obtained from Russia.

The missile was developed indigenously, but also with helps from foreign manufacturers. Several Russian missile and subsystem developers are reportedly supporting the program, with much of the missile utilizing components from the R-77 (AA-12 Adder).

In 1996 China revealed an active radar-homing seeker AMR-1, which is possibly based on Russian technology. Claimed to be developed for the new generation active radar-homing MRAAM, the AMR-1 seeker or its developed variant could be used to guide the SD-10.

http://www.sinodefence.com/missile/airlaunched/sd10.asp

another chinese link

/Stealth Spy