OK, I can’t stress enough that this is a theoretical question so I don’t get my door kicked in!
I always read with interest what gets found when digging wrecks or general poking around old military sites but I wondered what happens in the case of a weapon being found.
Now these come out of the ground in various states from a barely recognisable lump of iron oxide to a viable firearm (as a recent TV show demonstrated).
So my question is, if you do find a weapon what happens next?
If it’s an obvious pile of rust, can you just keep it or do you have to have it inspected and declared safe?
What about something more viable? Can these be de-activated legally so that they can be kept/preserved for display or is the red-tape so complex you’re better off sticking it back in the ground or throwing it in a river?
Assuming it is possible to keep it, what happens in the meantime? Do you have to hand it in, report it somewhere?
I’m just curious – I’ve dug up all sorts of weird stuff at airfields, but no weapons but a friend years ago said he was doing some demolition at an old school and found a crated Mk.I Bren gun in an attic space which they assumed had come from the school being used as a drill hall/defended locality or from the old CCF.
By: N.Wotherspoon - 27th October 2012 at 17:14
Have you seen those you tube videos of those metal detector enthuisasts digging in Belgium in the forests and there bringing up clean as “new” bullets & then there is the twisted and corroded weapons, plenty of helmets etc.
IIRC a couple of those detectorists went to jail a few months ago! Even putting aside the very strict rules on detecting they have in most European countries, being caught in possession of live military ordnance or even a single relic armour piercing bullet is, I believe, a serious and often custodial offence.
As for aircraft weapons – I am not going to go into detail, other than to say all such finds – even parts of such guns – are classed as section 5 weapons – carrying a 5 years custodial sentence I believe for unauthorised possession. Relic condition are treated just the same – yes the proof houses do now have the authority to declare a dug up weapon as deactivated due to its condition – but they never have done so yet to my knowledge and I was told flatly that they never would be prepared to do this, as the law is so badly termed, it could leave them wide open to future problems.
I used to have a good working relationship with our local police firearms inspection team and have reported ALL such finds I have made and had several weapons inspected and declared (in writing) as being outside the terms of the act due to there condition – Also have had several others deactivated on police advice – But now all the qualified inspectors have gone due to cuts and they simply have no expertise or interest in dealing with such matters now.
The attitude of many of the “diggers” I have seen on other forums who seem to think whatever they find is OK if it is incomplete or “rusted solid” is IMO treading on thin ice
By: piston power! - 27th October 2012 at 04:29
Have you seen those you tube videos of those metal detector enthuisasts digging in Belgium in the forests and there bringing up clean as “new” bullets & then there is the twisted and corroded weapons, plenty of helmets etc.
Those weapons may still have one up the pipe ready best not clean it up too hard.!
I suspect they find weapons in a clean state but can’t show them on the videos.!!
By: PanzerJohn - 26th October 2012 at 19:15
I don’t think the police have the power to declare a weapon to be deactivated. The law states that a deactivated weapon must have been inspected by a proof house (London or Birmingham) and the relevant parts stamped accordingly, until that has been done the weapon is still classed as a live firearm. Certainly your local firearms officer would be a good start,if there is one, and even they can be vague on details. I could tell you one hell of a story, but not here!
Here’e my 1942 MG 34 with 1938 Lafette tripod…again sadly sold..I had a big clearout last year..
By: Rocketeer - 26th October 2012 at 19:09
It can get a bit more complex! The gun laws do talk of deactivation by condition. In the past, I have been to some museums (that have been visited by the police), where severely corroded and bent guns and/or parts are missing have not had to be deactivated as it is obvious they are ‘ok’. That said, I think there is a huge amount of variability between forces. At the end of the day it is worth getting the laws and making sure you adhere to them.
I think PanzerJohns suggestion is a good one. But it varies on a case by case basis. Certainly, if I found a gun like the ones that were fired from the spit….it would be down the deactivaton route lickety split!
By: PanzerJohn - 26th October 2012 at 16:25
Even if its a bent rusty piece of junk it will still have to be inspected at a proof house and any work done to make it legally dectivated. As to what happens if you find a gun in wreck, it may well still be owned by the MoD. Say you find a Luger in your recently deceased Grandads attic, you would have to inform the police, if there is ammo they will probably be around poste haste, if not they will prob ask you to hand it in at the nearest nick,where,after checking to see if has a criminal history, it will be sent for disposal or if historically significant, to a suitable keeper.
Now, I think you should be able to ask to keep ownership, have it collected by licenced dealer who would be able to send it for deactivation for you,that will cost though, but deacted Lugers are fetching £1k plus depending on rarity.
Here’s mine…sadly sold last year.
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October 26, 2012 at 3:35 pm