'Those Magificent Men…' Demoiselle

Hi There
In the mid seventies.75/76, there was a TV series made by yorkshire TV called Flambards. We were involved in making some pre ww1 taxiable replica’s. These included Blackburn Monoplane’s and a Bleriot. Also yorkshire TV aquired a Demosell Replica, this had been contructed to airworthy standards and was powered by a two cylinder Jap engine. It was only used for ground shots and set dressing for the series, afterward, with the rest of the A/C it went to Flambards theme park in Cornwall. Dont know where it is today??? always thought it would make an interesting project to get it to fly!!!!!

Hi Julian,
Great to hear from you mate, and I have to congratulate you on the completed Demoiselle. It looks great. Thanks for your offer of assistance should a replica be built and I’ll keep that in mind. It’s certainly something that I’d like to do in time to come, however at the moment my attention is directed at one of those complicated things with aluminium construction and instruments. At least it should fly a bit better than a Demoiselle!

Cheers,
Matt

Dear all,

My name is Julian Aubert and I built the Demoiselle currently exhibited at Brooklands museum. It was rather difficult to build to original specifications and consequently I would recommend to build a replica along the lines of the one for the film.

In my case, it was a bit of a personal challenge that I was seeking but must admit that it is frustrating not to be able to fly it because of regulations. However, if anybody is mad enough to want to build one, I would be happy to help.

Best regards,

Julian

Demoiselle

Dear all,

My name is Julian Aubert and I built the Demoiselle currently exhibited at Brooklands museum. It was rather difficult to build to original specifications and consequently I would recommend to build a replica along the lines of the one for the film.

In my case, it was a bit of a personal challenge that I was seeking but must admit that it is frustrating not to be able to fly it because of regulations. However, if anybody is mad enough to want to build one, I would be happy to help.

Best regards,

Julian

Had a look at the website for Old Rhinebeck and their replica was built in 1957 by Cole Palen, and restored in 1998, so I guess it is still owned by the museum. I don’t know if any other replicas were built for the film, other than the flyer, and if so whether they survive today.

I am not a pilot and have never flown in anything like a pioneer aircraft, or a powered hangglider. There is at least one person on this forum who flies aircraft of that era and could probably give you an educated answer of it what it would be like to fly. In my opinion it would be a lot harder to fly than the aircraft of today, even a replica like the one built for the film is unlikely to be that stable or as forgiving. I think that if you were to stall the Demoiselle you were in big trouble as the centre of gravity is quite far aft of the centre of pressure. However, if it was that hard to fly would Santos-Dumont have been able to fly it, with virtually no pevious experience? He did have several crashes in it, which could be expected really, but also flew it round the Eiffel Tower. I believe serveral Demoiselles were built, some by different people as he was happy to give his designs away for free, and I have been told that none were involved in fatal crashes, but cannot confirm this. It was quite a popular aircraft of the day, so it sounds like for the period then it would have been quite reasonable to fly.

Steve

Hi Steve,
Thanks for joining this thread mate and it’s great to hear of your experiences with the Demoiselle. You mentioned the possibility of there being a taxiable replica at Old Rhinebeck. Not sure if the museum owns it themselves, however I have definitely seen a photo of a taxiable one there. Haven’t been able to confirm if it’s one of the Magnificent Men aircraft but it certainly wasn’t to original configuration. They do have an accurate replica on site.

I haven’t read the book on building the film aircraft, but have been casually looking for a copy for some time. No great rush, and I’m not going to pay the prices that some people are asking!

If I ever get around to building a replica myself, then it’ll essentially be a replica of the film aircraft, as at least they’re partially practical. Of course there’s the fact that I have the ideal pattern aircraft in my home town too.

Cheers,
Matt

Go Steve

Thank’s Steve great stuff 😀 😮 , It really was flying by the seat of your pants stuff in those days hey :rolleyes: , Do you think a replica like the flying movie one would be any harder to fly then say a powered hangglider :confused: , Cheers steve, Tally Ho! Phil :diablo: , (I must crash now, The old M.S. is starting to drain the batterys again 🙁 ” Gut Nacht” 😉 )

Not sure how many Demoiselles they built for the film, with most other aircraft they built 2 or 3, with only one of flyable and the rest for ground sequences.

As OzMatt said, they had to make many modifications for the flying replica. The bamboo fuselage was replaced with steel tubing welded together, and the wings were extended about 1ft each side. The flight control system was also changed. Originally the rudder was controlled by a wheel to the left of the pilot. The wheel would be moved forwards or backwards for left and right rudder, always a good idea to remember which way you are suppost to move it as it is not instinctive like most controls. The elevator is controlled by a stick to the right of the pilot, that again moves fwd and back. The wingwarping is ‘controlled’ by a stick that that runs up a sleeve in the back of the pilots overalls, and the pilot would lean either side to move it. For the replica it was an ordinary stick in front of the pilot for the elevators and ailerons (instead of wingwarping), and standard rudder pedals. The engine they used was a 30hp Ardam (Volkswagen) engine, and was later replaced with a 50hp Ardam to give more power. I think the original engine was a 30hp Darracq twin which ran at about 1500rpm.

I think there are two taxiable replicas about, one in America, possibly Old Rhineback but I am not sure, and one at Brooklands Museum which I happen to be involved with. The one at Brooklands is an accurate replica, with the bamboo and original type flying controls, hence the fact that it will never be allowed to fly. It is powered by a 40hp Daf car engine (heavily modified with Volkswagen cylinders). I believe this power will be enough to make it fly adequately, it certainly feels like it, but I am not brave enough to try it.

The last point is that if you are thinking of flying one, for the replica in the film they had to find a pilot weighing under 8 stone, neither Doug Bianchi or Allen Wheeler could get the aircraft to ‘unstick’, so the flying was done by Joan Hughes. Santos-Dumont was short (or vertically challenged to be politically correct), think about 5 ft. I am about 6ft and when I sit in the one at Brooklands I have to lean forwards to stop my head hitting the wing, and I am pretty wedged in their between two diagonal supports, there would be no way I could work the wingwarping. If you fit the dimensions above and do one day decide to build a flying one then good luck. A good book to read if you haven’t already is “Building Aeroplanes for Those Magnificent Men” by Allen Wheeler, which gives a lot of info on the Demoiselle.

Steve

The photo, if it comes out, is of me running the one at Brooklands last year.

Cool Matt

Thank’s for the info Matt, Avalon sounds good to me, Is it the big one again already, Never got the pic rolls done from the last yet :rolleyes: , I did my one and only flight in a German Blanch glider at 16 years old, At RAAF Laverton base, just across from the old Hercs that sat there for years.

I was in junior air league at the time and went first that day, Out of about 12 of us of all ages 17 down to 8, I seem to have the biggest balls, As everybody else just sh*t, when it came to get winched up and to get in to the plane, And I just said lets go Mr Valentine, Magic stuff, Pilot showed me thermals under certain clouds and off we spiraled up too them and then hit 3,500 ft.

Pilot then ask if I would like a try and I did some basic stuff 😎 , Then said how about some aerobatics, And I said go for it, And MAN 😮 could this guy fly, I had know idea at the time you could do so much in a glider, Just blew me away, And I felt fine no stomach trouble at all, It was just so peacefull without an engine, Almost flying with the birds :rolleyes: , No vibrations like a Cessna.

No one else that day got enough thermals for the min safe height for aerobatics :p , Just lucky me, And it was just because I went first and found that little cloud, An amazing day that I will never forget 😀 .

Been told Mr Valentines now the Pres of Gliders Vic Ass or something like that :confused: , And still flys out of Bacchus Marsh some times, So I may look him up. 😮

To see about a possible flight firstly 😀 , And what the cost is for a disabled glider licence 😮 , Theres still many things I want to do if possible before the M.S. takes hold.
Skydiving is another, I like the idea of free fall first up, So if the moneys not to tight tandum will be me first off, If I want to float about I’ll jump in a hot balloon :p , And remember there is no fear except fear its self 😉 , Cheers Matt, Sorry to rave on a bit 😮 , Tally Ho! Phil. :dev2: ( “Gut Nacht”)

Evening Phil,
I don’t know the full details about how the Demoiselle ended up here in town, but it was apparently brought out to Oz as a promotional item for the release of the movie. At some stage, Ansett acquired it (for unknown reasons!), and sometime later, it appeared in the museum. I have not heard anything about the aircraft having ever flown here in Oz, and I doubt that it would have been.

Although the replica Demoiselles look quite similar to the originals, there some some significant differences to make the beast easier to fly. Prinicipal among these changes are the ailerons (originals used wing warping for roll). This aircraft has a VW engine installed and I believe this is what was used for flying.

Is great to hear that you’ll be helping out a bit down at Point Cook. Spoke to one of the Mossie guys down at Tyabb in March (can’t remember his name), and they certainly seem to have plenty of enthusiasm for the project. Don’t really have any useful Mossie bits up here though. Well, not that I know of anyway.

Sensational that you were able to make it to the Aquarium. Haven’t been there myself but will make it sometime. With these trips you’re making or have planned, we might just have to see to it that you get to Avalon in March as well.

Cheers,
Matt

Thank you Matt

Thank’s Matt 🙂 , Yes it might be a good project to build a flying replica, Looks simple enough in constuction, What type of engine does the Demoiselle have :confused: , And whats the story of how it ended up in old Ballarat, The M.S. is much the same as all ways, Went to Melbourne Aquarium with stepdaughter Angie last week, Great stuff and spent 4 hours on my feet, Took a few days to get over it but it was an Amazing place 😮 , Yes I will be there for sure Matt 😀 , Thanks for offering, As it warms up I want to get back down to Point Cook for some hands on stuff with the guys there 😎 , The Aussie Mossie lads are greatfull for any help they can get, Cheers Matt, Tally Ho! Phil. :diablo:

G’day Phil,
Have to agree with you that it’s a classic film – so much so that it’s part of the movie collection. I believe that at least 2 Demoiselles were built for use in the film. Have no idea whether they both flew, or if one was limited to static/close up shots, etc. So, I can’t guarantee that this particular Demoiselle did the flying scenes. A clue might lie in the fact that the Ballarat one has lightening holes in the rudder pedals, whereas the one used for close ups in the movie, doesn’t. Haven’t looked closely enough at the flying scenes to look for such holes in that aircraft.

Personally, the Demoiselle is one aeroplane that I’d love to fly. Perhaps a future toy 😉 .

The weather’s starting to improve up here in Ballarat, so maybe in the next couple of months we’ll have to see if we can’t organise a trip for those who could make it.

That’s enough for tonight. Hope the MS isn’t getting the better of you mate. Keep up the fight.

Cheers,
Matt

G’ day Matt 😉 , I still watch that movie when its on, Classic Film I think, Or Crap film great planes either way :p , Nice pic Matt, Did she really fly while making the movie :confused: , She looks in pretty good nic, Cheers, Tally Ho! Phil. :diablo:

They go up didy up.

G’ day Matt 😉 , I still watch that movie when its on, Classic Film I think, Or Crap film great planes either way :p , Nice pic Matt, Did she really fly while making the movie :confused: , She looks in pretty good nic, Cheers, Tally Ho! Phil. :diablo: