TIGHAR Defeated?

So, we battle on….. Now that Gillespie has failed again (for good reason), maybe we will get some attention.

This has got to be – and probably always has been – the best chance of ever solving the mystery. Good luck to you sir; you have our attention.

Having gone through David Billings account of his search, and seen his detailed answers to his critics( particularly on the fuel/range remaining) I find it amazing that he hasn’t got more financial support.How on earth does anybody account for the Constructor Number on the tag? I suspect part of the trouble is that few people have bothered to go into the detail provided by Billings.

I think the main reason is that David hasn’t turned the search into a soap opera with cliff hanger episodes at the end of each series which hook you for the next series which finishes with the viewer none the wiser. 🙂

New Britain Project…

If Billings, or anybody else, had hard evidence we wouldn’t have the mystery still! What Billings has, amongst other things, is a wartime map and inexplicable notes of the C/N . Coupled with the other veterans reports its far more than anybody else has.What possible explanation is there of that C/N?

Simply said, there isn’t any other explanation for the C/N1055.

What was seen was an all-metal, unpainted wreck with Pratt & Whitney engines. There were no nationality markings on the wreck and they did not see any letters or numbers on the exterior at all. The cockpit area was all smashed back to the leading edge and when the Lieutenant stood on the Port wing root, the fuselage top was at his belt height. The starboard wingtip was bent upwards by about ten feet from the tip. One engine is still on wing and one engine is detached and lies thirty yards from the main wreckage. The wreck had been there some years. They all agreed that this wreck had been there for some years due to the corrosion evident and to the jungle growth around it. There were plants filling the cockpit area for instance.

The wreck they saw points to the East and is on the side of a hill which drops off into a valley which contains a small stream or creek.

They reported the wreck when they got back and five weeks later were told it did not belong to the U.S. Army Air Force.

In regard to the reports in “Pacific Wrecks” that what they saw was the B-17 in the area. I have seen that B-17 main wreckage and I am probably the only white fella who has seen it. It has no cockpit area as it broke off at the production joint. It also has no engines fitted as they came off when it blew up and there are none at the site. I have seen one engine half a mile from the wreck and it was struck in a river by one vertical prop blade and that is the only Wright engine I have seen from this wreck. It has no outboard wing panels or inner central wing panels carrying the outer engine nacelles. It has no rear fuselage as it broke off at the wing trailing edge. The wreck points to the NW and is on the side of a hill above a large river. The empennage from this B-17 lies about half a mile away from the main wreckage. This B-17 wreck is a few miles away from where we search for the Electra.

I have spoken at length with the very young man who runs Pacific Wrecks and he is totally incorrect in his assertion. For one thing, B-17’s had Wright Cyclone engines, not Pratt & Whitneys. That particular B-17 was also camouflage painted and would still have had paint on it in 1945. This very young man has made incorrect statements about the configuration of aircraft previously. He is not as expert as he claims to be.

So, we battle on….. Now that Gillespie has failed again (for good reason), maybe we will get some attention.

Regards,

David Billings
RPM, FF, TGT…
www.electranewbritain.com

P38 on south wales beach

So, after this lastest outing to collect obscure, vague and inconclusive trinkets that might possibly once have something to do with Earhart does this mean TIGHAR will actually be doing something about recovering that P-38 submerged in a north Wales beach?

A vast number of us know where this is in Wales and if these silly B******** would stop messing about it would have been raised a long time ago.But as has been said no profit for them and they can still claim its a pending project to keep their luxury cars and big holidays funded.

Mike E

(owner of a 17 year old Landrover and a battered caravan.).:D:D:D:D

Billings Electra search

If Billings, or anybody else, had hard evidence we wouldn’t have the mystery still! What Billings has, amongst other things, is a wartime map and inexplicable notes of the C/N . Coupled with the other veterans reports its far more than anybody else has.What possible explanation is there of that C/N?

Have they ever actually recovered anything?

Short answer: No

Billings Earhart Electra search in East New Britain

Having gone through David Billings account of his search, and seen his detailed answers to his critics( particularly on the fuel/range remaining) I find it amazing that he hasn’t got more financial support.How on earth does anybody account for the Constructor Number on the tag? I suspect part of the trouble is that few people have bothered to go into the detail provided by Billings.

In reference to the dinghy that alledgedly washed up a year after the disappearance, even if it was the same make and model, I would be pretty sure it would not be from their aircraft. If it had been floating in the Pacific Ocean for a year it would have deflated (rafts lose their pressure pretty quickly with temperature changes, etc, hence the supplied bellows in their kit to top them up). And being rubber it would have also perished in the hot sun.

Also if they had the raft and they had the aircraft’s maintenance logbook they could probably check the raft’s serial number. I doubt it would have matched.

Bottle contents often presage Fast Action Recovery Team membership.

The other thing is a lot of the evidence seems to come in the form of bottles. Messages in a bottle, anyone?

Do you know what the worst thing would be for TIGHAR? If they actually found Earhart, they would be broke within a fortnight…..Bruce

[B]Knifeedgeturn[/BThere is a lot of useful info on the TIGHAR site. It’s a pity they seem transfixed with the Nikumaroro conclusion.

If you take a sighting of the sun as it rises at 6am and then draw an LOP 157/377 line between the two comments above, I think you end up exactly where Tigger’s theory of exploration comes from, and will now fully understand and agree the logic of their efforts, and therefore should have absolute confidence in the expected outcomes of their ongoing exploration.

Smiles

Mark Pilkington

Knifeedgeturn, thanks for your welcome.

I read about the dinghy somewhere on the TIGHAR site years ago. I couldn’t find the reference again. As far as I recall, it was washed up about a year later, and was an identical model. I wouldn’t discount it entirely. We know from the 2011 Japanese tsunami that floating debris will drift on ocean currents all the way across the Pacific.

There is a lot of useful info on the TIGHAR site. It’s a pity they seem transfixed with the Nikumaroro conclusion.

Thanks for your post and welcome to the forum.

I mention the dingy because I have heard little or no mention of one, yet they would have known almost to the minute when fuel was out, and must have been prerpared for a ditching.

I have now recently seen the film “Amelia” and now know all there is to know on the subject! seriously, the film siggests that FN sat some way down the fuselage, (which I was unaware of) and so potentially there was a different scenario of survival for him than her.

The dingy bobbing around Hawaii sounds a bit of a “TIGHAR” to me, tenuous to say the least!

A fascinating story.

The only connection between Nikumaroro (or Gardner Island) and Amelia is that it was close (about 12 nm) from the LOP 157/337 that she transmitted. That LOP was a sunrise LOP obtained at local sunrise some 100 nm or so before Howland. If you take it passing through Howland Island. Nikumaroro is 350 nm South along that LOP from Howland. Nearly 3 hours worth of fuel. It’s very unlikely that she had that much fuel left when she was in the vicinity of Howland Island.

Most likely they initially aimed North of Howland and turned South on to LOP on DR, but with low cloud base never got close enough to see Howland.

She got close enough for strength 5 radio, but never saw it. Also impossible that she could have made as far as back along track as New Britain, 1900+ nm from Howland.

There was a dinghy onboard, and a similar dinghy was found some time later in Hawaii.

Most likely the brave lady went into the sea within 150nm of Howland, when fuel exhausted. It’s pretty deep around there, but maybe one day the Electra will be found.

Indeed, – a point I made a long time ago on another thread. I’d go even further – why bother to look at all. It won’t bring her back to life or result in an restorable a/c. What an utter waste of time and money.

Contrast this fiasco, with the P40 sat being vandalised in the Sahara, whilst people agonise over detail that are irrellevant to it’s expeditious rescue. :rolleyes:

Opposite ends of the spectrum, (sort of) one has no remains and therefore no conclusive evidence of their fate, the other is in plain sight, with mortal remains, and documented evidence of his fate; it’s sitting there because of a political situation, which unfortunately is bigger than one lost A/C and pilot.

Incidently did the Lockheed not have a dingy on board?

No, they know its there – cant raise any money on the back of that!!

So, after this lastest outing to collect obscure, vague and inconclusive trinkets that might possibly once have something to do with Earhart does this mean TIGHAR will actually be doing something about recovering that P-38 submerged in a north Wales beach?

As was pointed out by someone on WIX…
With all the millions they spent on trips to the Pacific, they could have actually recovered real airplanes…like the USN aircraft in Lake Michigan or the buried P-38 to name a couple of obvious examples. With some reasearch, I’m sure they could explore and find unknown aircraft out there.

Indeed, – a point I made a long time ago on another thread. I’d go even further – why bother to look at all. It won’t bring her back to life or result in an restorable a/c. What an utter waste of time and money.

Contrast this fiasco, with the P40 sat being vandalised in the Sahara, whilst people agonise over detail that are irrellevant to it’s expeditious rescue. :rolleyes:

Do you know what the worst thing would be for TIGHAR?

If they actually found Earhart, they would be broke within a fortnight…..

Bruce

Indeed, upon completion you are awarded the Certificate of Rapid Aircraft Preservation.

You are then eligible to join the Fast Acting Recovery Team crack squad and will be issued with Aviation Recovery Specialist Equipment.