Time Team Spitfire dig

Yes, Mark12 is absolutely correct.

The bullets had been found a re-buried there by the late Al Brown on his initial survey visit to the site some years previously. It was Al who had located the actual site. I can still recall his stifled amusement as Carenza carefully excavated the bullets with trowel and paintbrush and breathlessly declared this was exactly where they had fallen in 1940.

As Mark said, Al just didn’t have the heart to tell her!

I was surprised by Carenza handling the bullets,were they still dangerous?
They surmised he hadn’t fired a shot but could those bullets found just be the unused ones still in the plane?

I think those bullets, so close to the surface, had been gathered and buried some months earlier on the the pre-dig recce.

Nobody had the heart to tell her. 🙂

Mark

I was surprised by Carenza handling the bullets,were they still dangerous?
They surmised he hadn’t fired a shot but could those bullets found just be the unused ones still in the plane?

especially as the OP appeared to be basing it on heresay.

Not exactly. One of the archaeologists involved in the dig in France, mentioned it briefly online some while back.
I hadn’t heard the full story though, and wanted it confirmed.

I have edited my original post

Same Old, Same Old.

It was common, during both world wars, for coffins to be weighted-up with sandbags or similar to go with the proverbial ‘Jam-Jar’. (A friend of mine was presented with just such a jar containing the remains of a close friend he’d been talking to hours before during the war. Very distressing.) Even if the body was there, complete retrieval was often simply impractical. It’s almost inevitable when disturbing this kind of wreck/wargave that remains will be disturbed. Clearly a good reason for leaving well alone. Ahem. :rolleyes:

Of course, if there is no chance of any remains, then digging it up is a non-issue.

Nowhere in my message do I suggest we should not respect the recoverers at the time. I just do not think a public forum is the place for this sort of debate – especially as the OP appeared to be basing it on heresay.

At risk of disagreeing rather with Tony…

Having seen the programme I find it astonishing that anything, whether of man or aircraft, came out of that hole in 1940 to allow either identification or burial at the time. Andy’s book have made me aware that there are a great many people out there, many civilian contractors (eg the local undertaker who attended crashes in the Debden area), to whom many people owe a debt in that their efforts made an identification possible, and gave a man a name and a grave, in grim circumstances.

I don’t know who would have handled the case concerned – French, German or British – but we owe them respect, at the very least, for what they did for Paul Klipsch and his family.

Adrian

Thanks for confirming that Andy.

I appreciate these things can sometimes be of a sensitive nature.

Do you know what permissions/licences had to be granted for the dig ?

Alan

Yes, the dig and all filming, as well as involvement of the dig team, was suspended whilst remains were retrieved under the guidance of or by the CWGC. I believe these were re-interred in his nearby grave.

I believe I am correct in saying that the family were fully aware, but for reasons that Tony indicates this element was not shown or included in the programme and was not filmed.

A senior RAF officer representing the Defence Attache, British Embassy, Paris, was present throughout.

I found this programme quite moving enough without adding that element…!

I was fortunate enough to be taught by Carenza Lewis a few years ago in her “day-job” at Cambridge; I took the opportunity to say how good I thought that particular programme was, with the inclusion of Allan Wright, HAC’s Spit, and Klipsch’s brother.

I’m not enough of an archaeologist to get upset about the speed of the digs, and whatever other elements of Time Team that grate with people; I just thought it told the story of the sacrifice of one young man eloquently, movingly, and respectfully.

I don’t know either way as I was not involved, but just thinking out loud, is this really a helpful or a worthy inquiry? He has a grave. This is complete guesswork/heresay and can only upset relatives for no justified reason.