Tony Blair: The little hawk

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Re: RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

Originally posted by Geforce
It’s strange, Blair is the only European PM who’s a socialist, still he acts like a hawk. The more conservative PM’s/Presidents on the continent don’t see anything in a military intervention without the support of the UN-security council.

I think Tony Blair only speaks for himself and not for the whole country (I hope so). It would have been good for himself if he could manage to bring Busk back to sences, but no, instead he choses to follow the same path of insanity. Maybe once he’s PM-off, he can go live with Bush in his Texas ranch.

what kind of domestic policies and economic policies does he believe in?

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

It’s strange, Blair is the only European PM who’s a socialist, still he acts like a hawk. The more conservative PM’s/Presidents on the continent don’t see anything in a military intervention without the support of the UN-security council.

I think Tony Blair only speaks for himself and not for the whole country (I hope so). It would have been good for himself if he could manage to bring Busk back to sences, but no, instead he choses to follow the same path of insanity. Maybe once he’s PM-off, he can go live with Bush in his Texas ranch.

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

I don’t accept the Saudi story. The US needs cheap oil to kick-start their economy, so increasing supply will drive down the price. Adding Iraqi oil to the pot (as well as Saudi oil) would be beneficial for the US (and for everyone else, too!)

Keltic, sorry, couldn’t resist it! Don’t worry, you only made one slip…Blair is a charming man who people tend to like because he always smiles and says nice things. But after 5 years, a lot of people in the UK have sussed him out. He is very devious – he pioneered “stealth tax” in the UK. Income tax is lowered (yippee!) but some things which used to be tax free….are no longer tax free. Overall we pay more tax, even though tax rates have fallen!

Duncan Smith is awful too. They wonder why so few people bother to vote in the UK? Choice 1 is a devious pro-US backstabber and choice 2 is a nobody who just wants to increase spending by cutting tax (?!).

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

>>Remember a few weeks ago when most European members (Gefore,
>Keltic) all thought Blair was great, but a few British
>voices said otherwise? Hate to say it fellas….TOLD YOU
>SO!!

I have to admit he has defrauded me. I knew you would delighted at my critizing…..:-)But I don´t trust any politician and I am usually critical at both sides. But if you tell me to decide whom I vote in the UK…Duncan Smith or Blair…..I would have my doubts, both are a bit disgraceful for the UK. That´s of course a personal opinion and would ask nobody to get upset at my coments. Any other who deserves being voted?. Ours aren´t much better neither. Is there any country who could adopt our politicians?. As far as Iraq is concerned, I don´t trust the US administration either. Politicians always look for their interest. I don´t believe they seek the people welfare and their retoric…bla, bla, democracy, liberty…. and for someone so rich and linked to the oil industry it seems to me normal that they try to benefit his friends. I prefer looking further the retoric song of politicians. I have read in a newspaper (american I think) that the US administration is really fed up of the Saudis blackmailing and their unconfortable support to a terrorist country. So with the 10% Iraqi world oil resources under control, the tides with the Saudis could be broken. I find it a reasonable theory.

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

I still think Blair would have been a good candidate. But what he said the past few days, well, I think he reached the level of stupidity of GWB. Pity, because he would have got lots of support from the continent in his path to president of the EU. Now he messed up everything, especially the relations between britain and the continent. He is the only person who could bring a common European policy on Iraq. Now the good old paranoia between France and the UK will reach their limits.

I don’t think Blair realises that Britain IS part of Europe, and will always be, and the distance between the continent and the Uj is really slim.

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

I don’t subscribe to the “Westerners don’t understand Iraqis” mantra.

What is often overlooked is that most Muslims are a pragmatic people, with a big history of being traders. Britain occupied what is now called Iraq for a very long time in the Imperial days, but no one attacked London as a result. I don’t think there is this natural and unavoidable opposition in views, which is often portrayed.

What people mean, is that Westerners don’t understand muslim fundamentalists and vice versa. Fair enough, although I am personally flumoxed by hardline Christians too. Intolerant hardliners are all whackos to me, irrespective of whatever little “book” they read in bed. But for the most part, they’re just morally/intellectually weak people who need something to cling to.

So I think that rapproachment is possible between Iraqi people and the West, just not between the Iraqi extremists and the West.

There is a constant danger that such an axiom will be forgotten by those who seek to make Iraqi peoples as a whole our enemy. Bush springs to mind, with his lapdog Tony closely following.

Blair has messed everything up big time, politically. Only a few months ago, he was making inroads to being the President of the EC when he retires as British PM. Now that possibility is slowly slipping (he has more concern for the US than Europe) and so is his support at home. Poor Tony, he does rather seem to have lost the plot. Abandoning his domestic popularity and the friendship of a whole continent, just because Master called.

Remember a few weeks ago when most European members (Gefore, Keltic) all thought Blair was great, but a few British voices said otherwise? Hate to say it fellas….TOLD YOU SO!!

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

Could he be one of these???
Attachments:

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

Until quite recently, the Australian Prime Minister, John Howard, seemed to be strongly supportive of Bush in his aims to rid the world of Hussein as well. Public opinion out here has softened since last year and now the PM has had to back off. In my opinion, this is one situation where the world will probably have to let Hussein strike the first blow against another country before we all move in. After all, invading Iraq does not enjoy the unity of all nations in the way that action against Afghanistan did.

I think Blair honestly believes that Hussein represents the greatest threat to world peace and security and must be removed. But how do you achieve that without massive military intervention and the obvious number of deaths which must follow?

Kev refers to the US’s power and the removal of Hussein without massive loss of life. The problem with nations like Iraq, I think, is the mind-set of the general population and their rabid conviction that they have God’s support and we westerners are godless (infidels). Their religious conviction and commitment to the Koran makes it difficult for us westerners, if not impossible, to understand how they can hold some of their beliefs. Can any of us westerners really understand the emotions, the conviction to their beliefs, that Mohammed Atta and his team must have felt during the early hours of the morning of 9/11, when we see them calmly checking through the landing facility at Boston on security cameras, knowing what they were about to do? Can any of us imagine being in the pilot’s seat of the 737’s, heading directly towards the WTC or Pentagon, in the name of Allah?

This is what Bush, Blair et al are faced with. The Iraqi population supports those beliefs en masse. There is no way that Iraq will be a walk-over. Whilst the US and Britain have vastly superior arms, better trained personnel and some international support, the thought of cleaning the world of Hussein comparitively bloodlessly is a dream.

For those British readers on this forum, I think, from the other side of the world, that Blair comes across as a very intelligent, lucid speaker and at least has the guts to be heard. I can’t comment on his economic performance at home – that’s not newsworthy in Oz. I think he is showing a strong and united support for the US, almost as though he believes it is time that other countries stood up as world policemen, instead of always leaving it to the US. If that is the case, then he should be commended for that. His comment about sealing the pact in blood is one of those gaffes that most pollies make at some time in their careers, which they will always regret.

Just as a matter of interest, if Britain did join the US and attack Iraq and Hussein was “removed from office” permanently, how would British citizens feel? Britain has been kicked around almost as much as the US over the years by tin-pot dictators (Mugabe, Amin)and the chance to assert national strength and pride is a powerful inducement to succeed. Remember how you felt after the Falklands? But I believe that success in this part of the world can only come at a horrendous price.

Regards

Wombat

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

I was really surprised since last week on the EU summit, he showed quite a prudent outlook and pointed out that he was in favour but under a UN resolution. I don´t really think the Arab World is quite in favour of Iraq, I suppose most of them want to see Saddam out of power, but as you know the arab media and population are quite unstable and really susceptible to these things. So I suppose, it´s an internal consumption piece of news.

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

Hi Keltic.

It is at best an ill-considered comment that I think will do him great harm. On BBC News this morning an email was sent in purportedly by a British soldier serving in Germany who gave his name only as Eric, for understandable reasons, who wanted to know just whose blood Tony Blair was offering? This is a sentiment which I feel will be widespread among the British population.

I don’t think Blair is ‘hanging on to Bush’s coattails’ as it were, I think he genuinely believes it is the right thing to do, and if anything, that is even more worrying. I think we’re potentially in for a rough time over the next week or two with every crackpot terrorist organisation using the pretext of the 9/11 anniversary to create mayhem and publicity for their own particular cause.

The world becomes ever more dangerous and I dread to think of the outcome if the Arab Nations do support Iraq in the event of an American or Anglo-American attack. I just find it beyond belief that a country with the military and economic power of America, the resources, the logistics and the technology cannot engineer a regime change without endangering hundreds of thousands of lives.

Regards,

kev35

RE: Tony Blair: The little hawk

I’d really like to have the opinion of all our British friends on this forum.

Do you agree? Do you disagree? Mixed feeling?