Tora, Tora, Tora

Mostly, but not always, Harvard and BT-13 conversions. In some scenes you can see that some of the “Japanese” aircraft are simply painted Harvards – but you have to look closely to spot them! 😉

Even in their natural state, Harvards scrub up quite well as representing Japanese aircraft to the uninitiated.
It’s when they used them as Typhoons/Tempests in ‘A Bridge Too Far’ as well as ‘Das Boot’, that they stretch the imagination rather a long way, I could never work out why they did that, considering the availability of Sea Furies at the time, radial engines I know, but at least the shape and power was all there.

I think they were using some Navy dive bombers and (SNJ)/AT-6s and stand in for Japanese aircraft. I know he flew AT-6s and that is what he meant, but the way he said it was funny.

Mostly, but not always, Harvard and BT-13 conversions. In some scenes you can see that some of the “Japanese” aircraft are simply painted Harvards – but you have to look closely to spot them! 😉

The best part of Pearl Harbor was the fact that Jimmy Doolittle was introduced to a younger audience (never mind the fact that Alec “You thoughtless little pig…” Balwin played him).

The movie Pearl Harbor was pretty good, but I thought it was made more for adolescents. I actually prefer Tora Tora Tora. It cracked me up how many people I disagreed with because so many of the younger generation thought it was the most realistic flying scenes in a WWII movie they have seen. The graphics were great in the newer movie about Pearl Harbor however they dramatize things so much that they lost reality IMAO. For instance the way the airplanes are attacked and approached in fairly tight formation. I’m sorry but you don’t fly that way in real combat, because you’re liable to collide. Things tend not to be so orderly. The graphics looked great in the newer movie, however the planes did not fly or behave the way they do in real combat. I feel Tora Tora Tora was much more realistic because most of the planes were real, thusly they acted like it. The pilots that were flying the planes seem to know their stuff, and were using more realistic tactics.

I used to really enjoy watching Tora Tora Tora with my father, because the first few scenes that the Japanese aircraft would come into view my father would say he used to fly that airplane. It was funny because he never flew a Japanese aircraft, though the way he said it, that’s the way it seemed. I think they were using some Navy dive bombers and (SNJ)/AT-6s and stand in for Japanese aircraft. I know he flew AT-6s and that is what he meant, but the way he said it was funny.

I think Tora Tora Tora gave a more honest historical representation. I think it gave American and Japanese views with respect and a fair amount of honesty. Whereas the new movie Pearl Harbor seemed to try fabricate history by glossing over or ignoring some of the complacency/neglect/dereliction/incompetence that was made on the American side.

That’s just my arrogant opinion.

Just to be safe, I checked on IMDB, but couldn’t get much info, but how about the truly awe inspiringly dreadful film ‘Revolution’. This was all about how Al Pacino single handedly defeated the British in 1776, it surely falls into the same category as ‘Braveheart’.
It was filmed over here, and I believe, financed by Lew Grades film company, presumably the reason they went down the tubes. There you go, a British film showing our colonial demise at the hands of the Americans, and quite right too!!!
Incidentally, the ship dressings at Kings Lynn’s Custom Quay, were abandoned by the film company and left to rot. What a right mess it was when I went up there and saw the rotting hulks. I gather it took a fair bit of dosh to tidy the place up, after they chucked out ‘Mr Tidy’ in his narrow boat, where is he now?
Back to Tora Tora Tora, what must it have been like for some of the older members of the local population to have witnessed these scenes being re-enacted during the making of the film, it must have been very upsetting for some, were any comments made at the time.

Who was Mr Suomala? His surname is Finnish.

I don’t know. Fort’s accounts gave only that name and the fact he was a defense worker (civilian probably) on the island.

That would have been Cornelia Fort, who was giving instruction to a defense worker with the surname of Suomala in an Interstate Cadet* of Andrews Flying Service.

Who was Mr Suomala? His surname is Finnish.

The B-25 in question (Tora Tora Tora) was s/n 44-30478, civil N9754Z. It had indeed been damaged in May 1965 when a drunken pilot took it for an exciting joyride. For Tora, the filmakers mounted one of the vertical stabilizers as a single fin to allow the B-25 to somewhat resemble (loosely) a Douglas A-20. It appears in the film in very short scene when the Japanese fighter crashes through the roof of the hangar and explodes. The B-25 survived, though heavily damaged. Its ultimate fate?

There were no reported B-25s at Hickam or Wheeler on December 7, just a squadron of A-20s. That the filmmakers went to such a length to replicate an A-20 on scene is indicative of the efforts they made to get it as accurate as possible.

There was a wargame done at one of the Military Academies that reran Pearl Harbor giving the fleet an hours warning, as if the Japanese Embasy had delivered the declaration on time. Giving the fact that the USN carriers out of range, the mostly obsolete USN fleet steaming out would have led to 3-4 times the casualties to the USN. The air assets of Pearl would also have been wiped out with much higher loss of pilots and crew. I will look for that study and see if I can find a link.

Charge of the Light Brigade, that’s one I was thinking, others are Zulu (but UK Made? I’m not sure?), or perhaps Gallipoli?

The sinking of the HMS Glorious, there was a UK Documentary done. Hasn’t seen light of day this side of the pond, done 10 years ago. IMHO it would make a for a stunning Action Drama dispite the lose of the entire RN Unit. The brave fight of two distroyers protecting their charge, HMS Glorious, against two of the biggest capital ships in the Atlantic. Heroic stuff, they even got their licks in partially disabling the Scharnhorst. Perhaps seen as too shameful to the RN. No air assets doing recce, no spotters in the crows nest, no A/C on standby to take off and fight…what were they thinking?!? But the heroics of the DD’s really was the stuff legends are make of. Go back and read the accounts. Great, though sad stuff.

Hmm. Very sore point in the RN this. The full facts of what happened (or rather, why it was allowed to happen) won’t be known until the Board of Enquiry details are released in 2040. There’s a lot of ill feeling around this and would probably be very controversial, even now. The Norwegian campaign as a whole is probably ripe for reappraisal actually. Reading about it a lot recently and was reminded of the Falklands – i.e. a task force hastily cobbled together to fight a campaign it wasn’t prepared, equipped or trained to fight, making it up as they went along and actually close to (at least partial) success – the Narvik landings were the first proof that a heavily defended shore could be taken. Sadly by this time Britain and France had their backs to the wall so Norway was untenable.

All I can say is watch this space.

Yup, I confused the two, “Zulu” and “Zulu Dawn” both have not seen in a while, must watch again!

I always watch it clutching my Martini-Henry with bayonet. Gotta be careful I don’t spear the screen. 😀

Yup, I confused the two, “Zulu” and “Zulu Dawn” both have not seen in a while, must watch again!

Charge of the Light Brigade, that’s one I was thinking, others are Zulu (but UK Made? I’m not sure?), or perhaps Gallipoli?

The sinking of the HMS Glorious, there was a UK Documentary done. Hasn’t seen light of day this side of the pond, done 10 years ago. IMHO it would make a for a stunning Action Drama dispite the lose of the entire RN Unit. The brave fight of two distroyers protecting their charge, HMS Glorious, against two of the biggest capital ships in the Atlantic. Heroic stuff, they even got their licks in partially disabling the Scharnhorst. Perhaps seen as too shameful to the RN. No air assets doing recce, no spotters in the crows nest, no A/C on standby to take off and fight…what were they thinking?!? But the heroics of the DD’s really was the stuff legends are make of. Go back and read the accounts. Great, though sad stuff.

Zulu is the film of the battle at Rorke’s Drift which was a victory (Michael Caine and Stanley Baker). P’raps you mean Zulu Dawn (?) which is about the defeat at Isandlwana.

If its of any interest the Stearman in the film is marked with the name ‘Anderw Flying School’ and registration NC34307. The character names – the student’s name is Davey, and the pilot is Miss Fort. The Japs didn’t attack the Stearman though.

Charge of the Light Brigade, that’s one I was thinking, others are Zulu (but UK Made? I’m not sure?), or perhaps Gallipoli?

The sinking of the HMS Glorious, there was a UK Documentary done. Hasn’t seen light of day this side of the pond, done 10 years ago. IMHO it would make a for a stunning Action Drama dispite the lose of the entire RN Unit. The brave fight of two distroyers protecting their charge, HMS Glorious, against two of the biggest capital ships in the Atlantic. Heroic stuff, they even got their licks in partially disabling the Scharnhorst. Perhaps seen as too shameful to the RN. No air assets doing recce, no spotters in the crows nest, no A/C on standby to take off and fight…what were they thinking?!? But the heroics of the DD’s really was the stuff legends are make of. Go back and read the accounts. Great, though sad stuff.

BTW: Has the UK produced a film where it lost the battle? (none come to mind..) If it did, did it make money in the UK ?:D

Charge of the Light Brigade.

Moggy

I believe the film shows a woman instructor pilot in the Stearman.

That would have been Cornelia Fort, who was giving instruction to a defense worker with the surname of Suomala in an Interstate Cadet* of Andrews Flying Service.

There were many trainers airborne on that Sunday morning (it’s said that two were shot down by the Japanese) and its certainly possible there was more than one female intructor flying that morning. However, Ms. Fort’s story received a lot of media attention in the period.

*The Cadet was a Cub-like tandem monoplane that was later produced as the Army’s L-6. The Cadet she was flying was damaged by enemy fire and is believed to survive (at least a Cadet which was in Honolulu at the time and damaged in the attack is still with us..however, attempts to match its “NC” number with Fort’s logbook have not been sucessful to the best of my knowledge).

BTW: Fort, 22 at the time of the Japanese attack and part of a affluent Tenessee family, later joined the Women’s Auxiliary Ferrying Squadron, the predessor to the better known WASPs (Women Airforce Service Pilots).
On March 21, 1943 while enroute to Love Field in Dallas, her BT-13A 42-42432was struck by another aircraft.
She was killed when her plane went down in a remote canyon west of what is now Dyess Air Force Base, Texas. She had more than 1100 flying hours to her credit. The pilot of the other BT-13 survived.
It is belived she was the first American woman pilot to die on active military duty.
An airport in Nashville in named in her honor.

You are no doubt correct – I can imagine given such fine weather there would be quite a lot of students up that day. And I know the scene from the film.

Somewhere and my memory escapes me I have a reference to the woman instructor but, as usual, the old brain cell let me down.

🙂

I believe the film shows a woman instructor pilot in the Stearman.

That would have been Cornelia Fort, who was giving instruction to a defense worker with the surname of Suomala in an Interstate Cadet* of Andrews Flying Service.

There were many trainers airborne on that Sunday morning (it’s said that two were shot down by the Japanese) and its certainly possible there was more than one female intructor flying that morning. However, Ms. Fort’s story received a lot of media attention in the period.

*The Cadet was a Cub-like tandem monoplane that was later produced as the Army’s L-6. The Cadet she was flying was damaged by enemy fire and is believed to survive (at least a Cadet which was in Honolulu at the time and damaged in the attack is still with us..however, attempts to match its “NC” number with Fort’s logbook have not been sucessful to the best of my knowledge).

BTW: Fort, 22 at the time of the Japanese attack and part of a affluent Tenessee family, later joined the Women’s Auxiliary Ferrying Squadron, the predessor to the better known WASPs (Women Airforce Service Pilots).
On March 21, 1943 while enroute to Love Field in Dallas, her BT-13A 42-42432was struck by another aircraft.
She was killed when her plane went down in a remote canyon west of what is now Dyess Air Force Base, Texas. She had more than 1100 flying hours to her credit. The pilot of the other BT-13 survived.
It is belived she was the first American woman pilot to die on active military duty.
An airport in Nashville in named in her honor.

On the whole Stearman thing…how many were in civilian hands in 1941??? This was a primary flight trainer at the time FOR THE MILITARY. An old Jenny I could believe.

Lord’s [I]Day of Infamy[I] p. 86 cites one civilian student in an Aeronca from the Hui Lele Flying Club. Student was a Jim Duncan and the instructor was a Tommy Tommerlin.

On the whole Stearman thing…how many were in civilian hands in 1941??? This was a primary flight trainer at the time FOR THE MILITARY. An old Jenny I could believe.