TR9 and Teleflex?

There is a picture of a TR9 controller and RT sets from the late 20’s here :
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?132804-Westland-Walrus-information&p=2186340&highlight=#post2186340

Hi powerandpassion

That’s another good piece of information – thanks. A good deal of detail in it.

Cheers
James

Hi All

Attached is a picture of a TR9 set on an early Stirling. All input and any dimensions gratefully received!
Regards
James

There is a picture of a TR9 controller and RT sets from the late 20’s here :
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?132804-Westland-Walrus-information&p=2186340&highlight=#post2186340

Hi Ross

This is the Pilots control – the know as the volume control makes perfect sense.

The top handle appears to have some sort of detent device that is either to help tune or to stop the lever vibrating out of position – does the AP mention it?

I’ll have to take a couple of hours to digest all you posts but in the mean time many thanks and have a nice Xmas!!

James

Hi Ross,

Fantastic stuff! That is pretty much what I am looking for! The tuning adapter is there and a great deal more detail than I have had so far.

Attached is how far I have gotten with my model – I’ll need to make some changes now.

Cheers
James

This is a damaged Teleflex from the Anson MkII circa 1942 (landing lamp control)

Basic lever and tube diameter
[ATTACH=CONFIG]234120[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234119[/ATTACH]

Close up of coupler/lubricator

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234118[/ATTACH]

Regards
Ross

Hi James,

Think that these may help.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234116[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]234117[/ATTACH]

The first two are of post war rotary actuators for Teleflex. The wind direction/strength are 360 deg and 80 deg travel geared to give 5 turns output. The SBA Standard Beam Approach controller takes several turns of the handle to select the required freq which translates into rotary movement of the 2mm square output shaft.

The wind Teleflex is terminated in a screw outer with splined inner socket to match the plug end of the actuator. The SBA Teleflex has a plain outer casing gripped by the wing nut and a square socket ferrule. Only one output is usually used, the other is were retransmission of rotation is needed.

Note that all the above are rotary action of the Teleflex core.

The final two piccys are from AP 1186 for the TR9C and TR9D

[ATTACH=CONFIG]234114[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]234115[/ATTACH]

This shows the combinations from the hand controller. I think that you have give some mistaken application to the controls.

Send/Receive is the top one (push/pull) and goes to the coupling switch in your equipment photo,
Volume is the electrical potentiometer (is this what you have assumed is the lock)
The final lever is condenser and goes to a fine worm drive that rotates the condenser for tuning.

I’ll add another post with photos of a wartime teleflex cable c/w Union Lubricators

Regards
Ross

Hi Ross

For the TR9 in the early Stirlings the protective tubes are shown on the wiring diagram for the send/off/receive switch and the tuning (I’ll need to check that though later).

This raises another question, if you are using push-pull for the tuning then the effects of stiction, the small angle of rotation and general over zealousness would suggest that horribly jerky tuning would be the result. So does this suggest that the knob on the pilots control actually allowed slow and precise operation of the (tuning only) push-pull and that the lever was probably not used (except perhaps as a pointer)? I thought the knob might be for locking the levers but on reflection it makes no sense to lock the send/off/receive switch.

Do you (or others) have any dimensions for the Teleflex parts? Even the overall cable diameter would be useful.

Cheers
James

Sorry James,

My text was not as clear this morning as it seemed last night when I added it.

Problem with Bowden cables is that they really only work in a pulling direction. Spring return can be added to give an uncontrolled push but it is to a set distance rather than a user variable point.

The Teleflex system came in a few formats but the most common aircraft use was as push/pull with the ability to stop at any time during the travel and have the position retained. Small vessel steering mostly used a rotation of the inner but a some aircraft radio remote controls have also used this method where few bends are required.

Where little backlash is desirable the one or both ends of the cable are fitted into square ferrules and a toothed gear wheel is used to impart or derive the rotation. This is the system that was used for car speedo cables or some aircraft mechanical rpm displays.

Where some backlash could be tolerated or there were a number of bends in the transmission cable the core was moved in a push/pull motion. This is commonly seen where the cable end is covered by a hollow tube to prevent debris contamination. This is the rack and pinion method.

The system was designed to be free form in how the end actuators were designed as long as the cable core had the required motion imparted. You could mix and match eg

Lever for On/Off at cockpit with rotary motion at the radio by rack and pinion.
Rotary volume control at cockpit with rotary motion at the radio by toothed gear wheel.
Lever in cockpit for radiator flap with position display on lead screw indicator driven by rotary motion of direct ferrule connection.

Regards
Ross

Hi Ross

I can see the rough principle but how does the movement of the lever at the pilots end rotate the spiral core? The lever only moves through about 80 degrees and is rotating about an axis that is perpendicular and offset to the core axis?

I can see how it would work if the whole inner cable were pushed and pulled (as with a Bowden cable) That would explain the sealed tubes that stick out from both the controller and the coupling switch, they would accommodate the excess cable as it were pushed back and forth. If the cable were rotated there would be no need for these sealed tubes as the cable would not move laterally. Bowden cables don’t have excess cable as they move the part of the mechanism that they are fixed to.

If the inner core cable were pushed back and forth it would still appear to a fixed cog like a ‘rack’

Equally the manual lever at the coupling switch would be trying to turn what would be a ‘worm’ drive the wrong way and that would not be an easy task! It could easily push and pull the cable core though.

Also I have suddenly seen from the photo that there are the same ‘connectors’ on each side of both the control and coupling ends as mentioned in this post:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?60600-new-made-TR9-cable-connectors&highlight=teleflex+couplers

I assume that they clamp at one end to the teleflex outer sleeve and at the other to the control unit or the coupling switch. It looks like you would be able to see the cable in the ‘gap’ between the clamps.

Cheers
James

Hi OneEighthBit

I assume that the upper and lower levers do as you say but what is the knob for? Is it another control for some other parameter or is it turned to ‘lock’ the levers?

Cheers
James

Hi James,

Bowden cables have the stranded inner moving in and out of the sheath so they are used to transmit mostly pull with a small amount of push.

Teleflex transmits rotational movement by turning the inner spiral wire core.

The end of the sheath is fixed and tied to the core to restrict lateral movement. As the core turns it acts like a rack imparting rotational movement to the pinion.

That way you can provide a geared movement giving step up or step down direct connected final rotation.

Regards
Ross

James,

I think this is basically what you’re after: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?130524-What-is-it-control-switch-thingie-maybe-Spit

The one mentioned in that thread is a “10D/8907 TR9D Controller, Remote, Type C2” and has two teleflex’s – one to remotely turn on/off and the other that tunes.

The one on the front of you’re radio appears to be the one show on SpitfireSpares radio section as “TR9D Control Lever” which I surmise just turns the unit on/off remotely.

Hi Rosevidney,

Thanks for your reply. I have that AP too, but there is no detail of what I am after which is basically photos of a mechanical system. The parts are shown on the wiring diagram, but not too much detail.

I have since been on the Spitfirespares site and he has a heavily painted version of the coupling switch so I am one step on!

Cheers
James

I have the AP 1660C&D Volume 1 for the Stirling, dated April 1944. I see the TR9 was installed but the electrical and radio diagrams might as well be in Martian for me. Is this too late a Mark or edition? If not PM me.