Trislander Replacement

Well the answer is recondition the Trislander airframe and fit three of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ4eDhjF5sM

😀

Back in the early 80s, I worked for an Aberdeen based airline Air Ecosse. We operated a large fleet of EMB110s and two Twin Otters. The Otters were operated in some of the worst weather conditions in the UK, and into some of the less desirable airports, especially on the island flights. Some of the flights were made up of more than one sector, with some of the sectors being very short. Although its some time ago now, I do not recall any great issues with the ‘Twotter’ operations.

Might it not be the case, that the many improvements made to the Viking Otter over its predecessor, could now make the type more suitable to replace the Trislander?

Yes…I know about the inability to feather the prop…

A situation that will be looked into.

Not good enough.

They should have been grounded. I am guessing the only thing saving them is the thought of stranding all those important, and rich, people on the Islands.

They will kill somebody sooner or later. We should not wait until that happens.

Moggy

Yes…I know about the inability to feather the prop…

A situation that will be looked into.

Aurigny have always, in the past maintained that the Trislander was wholly suitable and if it had to go then the service might too.

Blue Islands criticised Aurigny for the Trislander Yet they themselves used the type in Alderney. They sold their Trislanders when they pulled out of Alderney.

If they do replace it with Twin Otters for example, which as I said earlier they did have but they were as financial disaster, then the new type would have to be subsidised and heavily too. If that does become the case, then it would be better to hold off and use that money to improve Alderney to be able to take a variety of types no possible at the moment.

Alderney does need upgrading and it will have to be done sometime.

Maybe now is the time.

Alderney is the ONLY reason it has to be Trislanders.

The Trislanders are noisy and uncomfortable by modern standards. If they could have replaced them easily, they would have, years ago.

My concern is a change is being forced up them, and that can backfire.

I doubt if they ever envisaged using the for even half as long as that have. They may well have assumed at in ten of so years Alderney will have been improved/

Aurigny were until recently still committed to the type. They have been testing GPS landing systems to enable them to get into Aldereny in poor weather.

Only recently, with maintenance issues, mainly with the ATR, have cause a bit of a backlash.

This is possibly more to do they them shrinking Anglo Normandy and no longer doing all the maintenance on island where the spares used to be available and repairs could be carried out quickly

The ATR fleet are the hangar Queens and the Trislander plods about doing it’s job but seems to be the scapegoat for Aurignys woes.

I’m not saying the Trislander shouldn’t be replace, I’m just saying it’s not straightforwards as it would be between major hubs

As for the Islands population…the are running a save JOEY campaign

Moggy

That incident was nasty, but things happen to all types now and then equally though provoking or worse

Not many (any) aircraft in commercial service I can think of are unable to maintain altitude after the loss of one engine when about half loaded.

Simply not acceptable.

I suggest you reread the AAIB again, but this time understand what is being said.

Moggy

Moggy

That incident was nasty, but things happen to all types now and then equally though provoking or worse

The Trislander has many more event free flights than most types.

That one incident seems to be behind the push to get rid of the type but why???

The type is cheap to operate…just like a car, get in start up and go.

When they had the Twin Otter it was sometimes difficult to even start it and the extra sophistication made it too expensive for the required job.

Aurigny have had very few incidents of any sort with the Trislander over more than Forty years.

Only fairly recently, at the time of the attempted take over by Blue Islands, Aurigny staged then that the Trislander was by far the best for the job and despite looking for years nothing could replace it as nothing could do the job as well and the type would remain for many more years.

It seems that image if anything is behind this.

As for spares shortages…about 90 percent of mechanics are common to the Islander and they are still made.

I still don’t think it’s possible to fly G registered aircraft, single engine, on a public transport C of A (or EASA equivalent) with fare paying pax on board in UK airspace. I’m very happy to be proved wrong, but I haven’t seen a change in the regulations. I will try and look it up.

9 pax single turboprop, cheap to operate

http://www.gippsaero.com/products-services/ga10.aspx#tab1
they also do a variant of the nomad.

There is a very good reason why the Trislander is still going after all these years. Nothing else can do the job as well, let alone better.

Cripes. If I was to set foot in its replacement it would have to be loads better.

Far too close to a major tragedy here:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources.cfm?file=/BN2A%20MK.III-2%20Trislander%20G-BDTO%2004-13.pdf

Moggy

I usually frequent the Historic forum but I saw this thread and thought I would add my tuppence worth.
The issue with any turbine powered replacement is engine overhaul life, measured in cycles not hours like the piston engines on the Trislander. Add to that turbine overhauls are expensive to do with costly lifed items to replace.
What is needed is an islander with a Trislander fuselage length for the capacity and a couple of diesel engines that are able to run on Avtur!

Richard

If turboprops are ruled out, not much is left. How about the An-2? May not look flash but it gets the job done.

Let 410

http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?topic=23189.0

http://www.citywing.com/cgi-bin/airkiosk/I7/191003?20130415023347.66.249.76.77.22675+/manx2/I7/EN/static/ouraircraft.html

This has been coming up on various forums over the last week. One thing that seems to be getting forgotten is that Aurigny already tried the Twin Otter years ago.

High maintenance cost and not liking frequent starts were just two of many reasons the type or any TP was found to be most unsuitable for the frequent Inter Island runs

Blue Islands also find the Jetstream expensive to run

There is a very good reason why the Trislander is still going after all these years. Nothing else can do the job as well, let alone better.

There is at least one Cessna 208 Caravan flying fare paying passengers in the UK – Loch Lomond Seaplane’s float equipped G-MDJE. Under what rules/limitations it operates I have no idea. Flying around the West Coast of Scotland I’d have thought the ability to operate IFR would be rather necessary! Certainly it is a type that has not ‘caught-on’ with British operators to any great degree, although there are a handful around and a couple of US registered ones with UK parachute schools (but then they would not be working in IFR conditions!). Interesting comment from Deano, as I would have thought the type would be the best candidate – after all Augriny have resisted operating the Twin Otter for decades and Scilly Isles mainly use theirs on longer sectors, with the Islanders for the short hops. I’m enjoying the speculation and comment on this thread.

Not sure you can fly single engined IFR on a UK registered Public Transport C of A over here. That would rule out the Caravan

I’d go with the Twin Otter or Cessna Grand Caravan.

I presume that three engines would not be needed in the Trislander’s replacement given advances in engine technology, just as three-engine airliners are no longer necessary.

Is that correct?

There are two types that spring to mind as suitable, the already mentioned Viking Otter 400 or a variant of the Cessna 208 Caravan.

Would the Dornier 228 not be a contender as well? I also have heard of two planes in that category being under development. One I forgot and the other being the Evektor EV-55.

Well the days of the piston engined type in this kind of commercial operation are numbered and any replacement will likely be a turbo prop. There are two types that spring to mind as suitable, the already mentioned Viking Otter 400 or a variant of the Cessna 208 Caravan. In this case I would say the Otter is the best choice.

This question will play out soon on the Falkland Islands as the FIGAS need to replace their BN-2 Islander, in this case I would say a Cessna 208 variant would be the better choice.

That brings back memories. We flew from Southend to Guernsey on our honeymoon in 1984.
We were supposed to fly direct to Guernsey, but were then told we had to fly to Jersey with a
connecting flight.
An interesting flight in a Trislander followed, Very noisy as I recall, sitting under the engine at
the back of the aircraft. Flying in formation with a similar aircraft.

I would imagine that the Twin Otter would be a major contender, especially as it has re-entered production. There’s not many places that the type can’t get in or out of.