Israel to acquire two more German submarines
Navy already operates three similar submarines, capable of launching cruise missiles with nuclear warheads.
Germany has agreed to sell Israel another two Dolphin-class submarines, They will join the three Dolphin –class submarines already operated by the Israeli navy, making Israel one of the premier maritime powers in the Arabian Sea.
The new pair of submarines, like the first three, will be built at the Kiel-based Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG, the world’s biggest builder of diesel submarines. The new boats are more advanced in that they will able to stay submerged for longer than the first Dolphins. The reported cost for the two craft is
$700 million.
Berlin has overcome its reluctance to the craft being fitted with nuclear cruise missiles, in the interests of a newly adopted more aggressive defense exports policy, and out of understanding that the EU’s attempts to halt Iran’s nuclear weapons program is unlikely to succeed.
Israel already has a major presence in the area. It has a naval and air base at Dahlak, a small island owned by Eritrea just outside the strategic Bab el Mandeb straits, where the Red Sea enters the Arabian Sea. At least one of its three Dolphin submarines is always on patrol in the Arabian Sea.
In May 2000 Israel is reported to have secretly carried out its first test launches from two German-built Dolphin-class submarines of cruise missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. According to foreign military and intelligence sources, the missiles launched from vessels off Sri Lanka in the Indian Ocean are said to have hit a target at a range of about 1,500 kilometers. The missiles reportedly carry a 200kg nuclear warhead containing 6kg of plutonium.
Several countries have, or plan to have a powerful and permanent naval presence in the Arabian Sea. The US and British navies maintain a constant presence in the area, from its staging point at the British naval base of Diego Garcia, in the middle of the Arabian Sea.
India, the region’s largest naval power (and the only country apart from the US and UK to operate aircraft carriers), maintains a major naval presence, including submarines and surface craft. Pakistan also has a constant submarine patrol. Although most of its naval forces are aged and obsolete, it recently purchased three France has constructed three Agosta-class subs from France, and is mulling buying two more. These are primarily interceptors, for use against surface ships and other subs, and cannot be used as platforms for cruise or ballistic missiles.
Indian subs of British-Russian manufacture sail keel to keel with Israel subs made in Germany, against Pakistani vessels made in France and Iranian subs made in China.
(2004-12-22 00:42:49.0)
http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=12098
By: DeepSpace - 20th November 2005 at 17:50
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/missile_systems/air_missiles/popeye_turbo/Popeye_Turbo.html
By: MANDRAKE_POE - 20th November 2005 at 17:01
Navy already operates three similar submarines, capable of launching cruise missiles with nuclear warheads.
Some debate over that! Whilst the Dolphins have been credited with being able to launch Harpoon variants there was some doubt that the Israelis had the capacity to produce a small enough nuclear warhead to mount onboard them.
This whole issue came to light about two year agos and I haven’t really heard anything of it since, anyone got some more recent reports?
By: Vaiar - 19th November 2005 at 14:13
Let’s post the whole article then (for educational purposes only) before it fades away:
Last update – 15:45 19/11/2005
Reports: Germany to sell Israel submarines at discount price
By Reuters
BERLIN – German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder’s outgoing government has agreed to sell two submarines to Israel for a deeply discounted price, German news magazines reported on Saturday.
Der Spiegel and Focus magazines said the two Dolphin class submarines would be built in Kiel for a total of about one billion euros (e1.17 billion) and the federal government, leaving office on Tuesday, would pick up one-third of the cost.
After the Gulf War in the early 1990s Germany gave two Dolphin class submarines to the Israel’s navy, which then bought a third for a fraction of the price.
Schroeder’s Social Democrat-Greens government had long been hesitant about selling more submarines, according to German media reports, over fears Israel could arm the Dolphins with nuclear weapons and threaten Middle East stability.
But according to Israeli security sources, the dispute was over whether Germany should charge the full price. Der Spiegel and Focus said on Saturday that Germany had indeed long resisted Israel’s request to help finance the cost of the submarines.
If the sale is confirmed, it would be the second major and long-delayed arms deal the government has agreed in its final month in office. Two weeks ago, Schroeder’s government agreed to sell 298 surplus Leopard 2 battle tanks to Turkey.
Source: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/647321.html
By: fightingirish - 19th November 2005 at 13:56
Goodbye present from Schroeder!
Israel to acquire two more German submarines ….
(2004-12-22 00:42:49.0)
http://www.maarivintl.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=article&articleID=12098
Keeping this old thread up to date.
According to main german news sources (Focus, Spiegel, … ) the old german government,leaving office on Tuesday, will decide on Monday to sell two Dolphin class submarines to Israel. The submarines will be built in Kiel for a total of about one billion euros and the both german governments have agreeded to pick up one-third of the cost.
The subs will have an air-independent propulsion (AIP) system like in the U212 class.
Source in English from Israel: Haaretzdaily.com – Reports: Germany to sell Israel submarines at discount price
By: dan_pub - 25th January 2005 at 18:50
as far as I know the French do not base their carriers from there, it may make some port visits…
Of course. No more and no less “based there” than the US or UK.
And as you could check, the reply was not to whether they ARE based there, but to who is “capable of basing aircraft carriers in that region.The French dont have a base there.”
By: Sameer - 25th January 2005 at 17:34
visited reunion Island last year from Mauritius, as far as I know the French do not base their carriers from there, it may make some port visits…
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th January 2005 at 14:24
The Italians , spanish and brazilians are not going to send their aircraft carriers there…
The Italian aircraft carrier Giuseppe Garibaldi took part in Operation Enduring Freedom in the Arabian Sea.
Try looking up “Reunion Island”, someday, if you’re ever fed up with the taste of your foot in your mouth.
Yes, the French even have a small Indian Ocean fleet permanently based there.
By: dan_pub - 25th January 2005 at 14:07
Probably ment that the only country besides the US and UK(due to diego gracia) capable of basing aircraft carriers in that region.The French dont have a base there.
Mmmhhh. Interesting.
Try looking up “Reunion Island”, someday, if you’re ever fed up with the taste of your foot in your mouth.
:diablo: :diablo: 😀 😀
By: Aurel - 18th January 2005 at 01:31
No, I actually think it was to compensate for German firms involvement in Iraq prior to the war that saw scuds land in Tel Aviv.
I doubt they’ll get any further submarines for free.
It is as simple as that: Germany refused to take part in the second gulf war (1991). Instead, all active NATO-members got money and/or Germany ‘lent’ supplies to them. As part of this multi billion aid, Israel recived the Dolphins. Additionally, gas masks were lent to them. They didn’t mind to give them back after the war, as the British did with spares for Tornadoes, the US with….
At least the Americans decided to buy some ammunitions later from Germany, as they found out it had better quality.
Edit: And yes they requested them since 2000/2001 ??? Not quite shure about the date. But it was refused. With the third gulf war Israel started a further attempt to get it for free, instead they got Patriots lent. (At least, someone realised that subs aren’t that usefull for missile defense)
By: xanadu - 17th January 2005 at 20:21
“India, the region’s largest naval power (and the only country apart from the US and UK to operate aircraft carriers).”
Um, What happened to the French, Italian, Spanish, Brazilian, Thai, carriers? Even Russia has a carrier that they take out once every 5 years or so.
———————————————————————————–
Probably ment that the only country besides the US and UK(due to diego gracia) capable of basing aircraft carriers in that region.The French dont have a base there. The Italians , spanish and brazilians are not going to send their aircraft carriers there and last heard about the Thai carrier it was going no where anytime soon and they were thinking of getting rid of it.
By: Arabella-Cox - 16th January 2005 at 21:16
No, I actually think it was to compensate for German firms involvement in Iraq prior to the war that saw scuds land in Tel Aviv.
I doubt they’ll get any further submarines for free.
By: Showtime 100 - 16th January 2005 at 18:27
And are these submarines for Israel coming FREE??? …… they managed to get the German tax-payers pay for the earlier 3 subs ….
War-crime atonement!
By: Blackcat - 16th January 2005 at 18:08
And are these submarines for Israel coming FREE??? …… they managed to get the German tax-payers pay for the earlier 3 subs ….
By: BME330 - 23rd December 2004 at 16:46
Before the kuwait war (GWI?) Israel only had money for one Dolphin SSK, after the war Germany paid two submarines to Israel, and probably a nice part from the third SSK, Kohl was a nice friend of Saddam before the war (like so many chemical industries)
OT even the PM of Spain that years loved Saddam and he made german choppers for Saddam (Bö-105) in Getafe, air bombs and napalm were also included on the deals
By: Lava - 23rd December 2004 at 11:40
I honestly dont have a clue, why would I? :confused:
No prob mate!
By: Mastkiller - 23rd December 2004 at 11:33
The Israeli Dolphin class is a successor of the Type 209.
I don’t know if it was designed by the British or British subcompany of HDW or by HDW itself but I do know that it was not payed by the US. In fact the Israelis got it for free from the Germans. :rolleyes:
By: Pak Thunder - 23rd December 2004 at 11:21
So are Pakisatani submarines nuke capable!?
I honestly dont have a clue, why would I? :confused:
By: Lava - 23rd December 2004 at 10:51
This article is definately BS on some points! Isreali subs conducting patrols against Pakistani subs that the article istself are not nuke capable!?
So are Pakisatani submarines nuke capable!?
By: Pak Thunder - 23rd December 2004 at 10:40
This article is definately BS on some points! Isreali subs conducting patrols against Pakistani subs that the article istself are not nuke capable!?
By: wd1 - 23rd December 2004 at 08:56
China has a licence to produce early model Kilo’s of the Type 877EKM range. The Type 636 are being aquired currently under a new deal that will also see some of the older PLAN Kilo’s updated to the Type 636 standard.
Some of the indiginous built kilo’s will replace some of the older Romeo’s that were built locally!
The Israeli Dolphin class were built in Germany to a British design with American money (go figure :rolleyes: ). There are only three in service as only three were built, these are INS Dolphin, INS Leviathan and INS Tekuma. These boats replaced a similar number of Type 206/Gal class boats. There was talk of them buying another one (not two) about six months ago, but the finances were diverted to their new Corvette program instead (which is also having difficulties).
AFAIK the Israelis paid for the new Dolphins themselves. they were denied FMS funding for the subs as they were not built in the USA…
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December 22, 2004 at 4:30 pm