Turkish Carrier/LHD?

Thanks for the info, do you know if there is anything available on the local/BMT design ? or nothing released yet ?

Here it is: http://www.rmkmarine.com/landing-platform-dock-project.html

Interesting shortlist…no mention of the South Korean Dokdo design though?. About 12-18mnths ago the word was that it was a virtually done deal??. Has there been a definitive shift in relations with the South Koreans Orko?

I personally respect South Koreans and love them. They are also very good at shipbuilding but unfortunately a disappoinment in cooperation, project management and documentation. Relations are very good between the two countries but not in terms of joint projects.

Interesting shortlist…no mention of the South Korean Dokdo design though?. About 12-18mnths ago the word was that it was a virtually done deal??. Has there been a definitive shift in relations with the South Koreans Orko?

The news reports are based on misinformed Turkish local news, which were pretty much confused by the straight deck LPD / LHD project and named it as an aircraft carrier.

Currently there is a project about a 20,000 – 25,000t amphibious assault / helicopter landing ship. Something like a Juan Carlos or Mistral. Contract negotiations expected to commence this year when the winner is selected (Chinese Type 081, modified Juan Carlos 1 and a local design supported by UK BMT). The projected ship is required to be capable of flying 4 helicopters from deck while keeping 8 in hangar; while supporting a fully equipped marine battalion.

On the other hand, the Turkish Navy is playing with the idea of an organic fixed wing force in the long, very long term. This very idea is on the table since the Bosnia / Kosovo operations. There is not a solid project or defined requirement and it will definitely see well after 2020’s.

Thanks for the info, do you know if there is anything available on the local/BMT design ? or nothing released yet ?

The news reports are based on misinformed Turkish local news, which were pretty much confused by the straight deck LPD / LHD project and named it as an aircraft carrier.

Currently there is a project about a 20,000 – 25,000t amphibious assault / helicopter landing ship. Something like a Juan Carlos or Mistral. Contract negotiations expected to commence this year when the winner is selected (Chinese Type 081, modified Juan Carlos 1 and a local design supported by UK BMT). The projected ship is required to be capable of flying 4 helicopters from deck while keeping 8 in hangar; while supporting a fully equipped marine battalion.

On the other hand, the Turkish Navy is playing with the idea of an organic fixed wing force in the long, very long term. This very idea is on the table since the Bosnia / Kosovo operations. There is not a solid project or defined requirement and it will definitely see well after 2020’s.

Certainly plausible enough — borrow an existing design and switch out some planned F-35As for Bs. As for how useful it will be — how useful is Brazil’s carrier? Carriers are about prestige and admission to The Club of Countries Wot Matter as much as anything else.

Europe is going to rue spurning Turkey in the decades ahead. Could’ve been a first-rate military and economic contributor to the EU, and a growing one unlike UK/FR/GR. Oh well.

It’s a good idea to be F35B compatible, even if not actually getting any (from the point of view of capability for crossdecking US, Spanish and Italian aviation assets)

Yeah, but those are issues that could’ve been negotiated and dealt with in good faith. Many things are possible when all parties recognise a certain outcome as in their best interests and are willing to compromise to get there, as was once the case.

It was the War on Terra that screwed it all up. Inflamed xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe, and turned the Turkish public against the Americans and their Euro buddies waging war on Muslims. The well is poisoned on both sides now. Europe is drawing inward and Turkey has a new sense of and pride in itself and no longer sees Europe as a goal to aspire towards.

Turkish membership of EU was contested before War on Terror. In fact it started in the 1980s when the Turks first applied for membership.

Back then it was a poorly managed economy and issues with Greece and Cypress.

As for Islamic-Western relations, they too started to sour long before War on Terror with a whole heap of issues including 1979 Iranian Revolution, failure of Arab nationalism and subsequent strengthening of Arab funded Wahhabist fundamentalism, stationing of infidel troops in Saudi Arabia in 1991 and failure to achieve peace in Israel-Palestine.

Islamic relations with non-Muslims have been strained in places like India, Pakistan, Malaysia and elsewhere for a lot longer.

War on Terror was an unfortunate but almost inevitable outcome.

And Turkey is intimately entwined with the history and culture of Europe. The raw material is there to divide or unite according to one’s inclinations.

Unfortunately most of that history is one of invasion and occupation.

The other question is where do you stop with the EU?

I think it’s already too big. The bigger it is, the more bogged down it will get with everyone wanting their say in policy.

And whilst Turkey is growing now, it’s got a history of economic mismanagement and instability as do countries like Spain and Greece and all the small fry Eastern European economies. And look at the problems countries like Spain and Greece are causing the Euro now.

And as stated they’re all entitled to a say in the running of the Union.

They should’ve kept it a mainly Northern European entity.

Carriers and nukes … well, mostly carriers I guess. Nukes are rather more limited as tools of state, although obv. effective within their niche. Turkey already has American nukes anyway. :p

No reason Turkey couldn’t go on to build several such vessels. 3-4 LHDs with two F-35B squadrons between them?

Yet they’ll still have to rely on the smaller Dutch and German militaries to provide Air Defence.

Politics – the true game of lunacy.

There are some tiny, little issues regarding Turkey’s adminssion into EU such as human rights violations and the fact that they’re a predominantly Muslim country.

Yeah, but those are issues that could’ve been negotiated and dealt with in good faith. Many things are possible when all parties recognise a certain outcome as in their best interests and are willing to compromise to get there, as was once the case.

It was the War on Terra that screwed it all up. Inflamed xenophobia and anti-immigrant sentiment in Europe, and turned the Turkish public against the Americans and their Euro buddies waging war on Muslims. The well is poisoned on both sides now. Europe is drawing inward and Turkey has a new sense of and pride in itself and no longer sees Europe as a goal to aspire towards.

Culture and religion still play a role even in civilised Western Europe.

And Turkey is intimately entwined with the history and culture of Europe. The raw material is there to divide or unite according to one’s inclinations.

I agree the carrier is the admission price of The Club of Countries Wot Matter.

Carriers and nukes … well, mostly carriers I guess. Nukes are rather more limited as tools of state, although obv. effective within their niche. Turkey already has American nukes anyway. :p

No reason Turkey couldn’t go on to build several such vessels. 3-4 LHDs with two F-35B squadrons between them?

There are some tiny, little issues regarding Turkey’s adminssion into EU such as human rights violations and the fact that they’re a predominantly Muslim country.

Culture and religion still play a role even in civilised Western Europe.

I agree the carrier is the admission price of The Club of Countries Wot Matter.

Maybe they should do something smart like buy Patriot SAMs instead of relying on NATO to defend them against Syria’s mighty rust bucket squadrons.

Certainly plausible enough — borrow an existing design and switch out some planned F-35As for Bs. As for how useful it will be — how useful is Brazil’s carrier? Carriers are about prestige and admission to The Club of Countries Wot Matter as much as anything else.

Europe is going to rue spurning Turkey in the decades ahead. Could’ve been a first-rate military and economic contributor to the EU, and a growing one unlike UK/FR/GR. Oh well.