Twelve O'Clock High and Command Decision

The version I have he replaces the jug and rides away but the intro where he found it is cut…who knows how many versions there may be out there… I agree with Dan, it was the catalyst for why he went to the field in the first place so it really was stupid to ever cut the opening from ANY version.

BTW, I’ve failed to mention that, on the whole I am not the biggest movie fan but Twelve O’ Clock High is one of the few I watch on a fairly frequent basis and, even though I have it on video tape, I still will stop and watch it anytime I catch it on TV. While it may be full of historical inaccuracies and the scenes weren’t shot where it all really happened I still think it captures at least some of the atmosphere…

The Toby Jug is the catalyst for the Adj’s visit back to the field. As he walks on to the field he drifts back in time and we head out into the wartime world of the 918th.

The purpose of his visit was to put the Toby Jug back which he does before he departs.

Dan

The DVD version I just watched, which is the latest released version, has the beginning where he finds the Toby Jug in a shop window after buying a hat.

I cannot recall how it ends, but I’m fairly sure after the ‘flashback’ it just pans back to him and he wanders over back through the fence on onto his bike, and away. Unless I missed it, I don’t think he went into the building and replaced the jug.

I’ll have to get it out from the video shop again now. hehe

The VHS copy I have opens with Stovall finding the Toby in the shop. The ending I have seen but is different than the one on my VHS copy is Stovall returning the Toby to where it had been kept in the Officer’s club, now dusty and derelict, and then riding away on his bike. Good ending, but cut from some versions.

If I’m not mistaken wasn’t the original opening sequence of the movie Stovall finding the “Masked Toby” mug in a junk shop (I’ve seen stills of this scene) and this was later cut, the resulting new opening now being the adjutant riding up to the field post-war on a bicycle?

The last time I saw the movie the original opening was cut so I guess all I have ever seen is the American version…

I also remember years ago there were reproductions of the Masked Toby mug floating around but they were uberexpensive.

EDIT: Yep, I found one, still way out of my price range:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=66516&item=6146464098

The passage in the book that describes the last mission is almost word for word what Bernie Lay wrote about his co-pilot’s eye view of the Schweifurt run in 43 while flying in “Picadilly Lilly” of the 100th Bomb Group. General Savage is based on General Frank Armstrong, who rejuvinated the 306th BG that had a similar problem to the fictional 918th. It was considered that the book was Lay’s tribute to Armstrong in some respects. Dan

I have read that (no not the book, Bernie Lay’s account). It’s published in full in Freeman’s “Mighty Eighth War Dairy” (very similar to the Middlebrook & Everitt Bomber Command tome). An amazing commentary of a harrowing ride! Well worth reading by all on this forum.

BTW, on that day (17 August 1943) the Allies lost about 110 heavies, 60+ USAAF on the daylight raids to Schweinfurt/Regensburg and then 54 RAF at Peenemunde that night. The RAF was relatively “lucky”, some night fighter units had taken part in the day fighting and were under-strength by end of day. It was a good day for the Luftwaffe.

One peculiarity for this movie is that there were apparently two versions cut, one shorter for U.S. release and the other a longer one released overseas.

Actually there isn’t anything too peculiar about that. Many, many films were edited for US consumption in those days and before. Particularly British films but I have heard of their own films also being edited. I’m not sure why, shorter attention span? :confused:

One that comes to mind is the awesome British film ‘The Way Ahead’ (1944) was cut down significantly – the film runs for 115 minutes but the US edit (renamed ‘The Immortal Battalion’) was only 91 minutes.

The opening and operational scenes of Twelve O’Clock High were filmed at Ozark Field, a closed auxilliary field for Eglin located in southeastern Alabama. This field was reopened later as Ft. Rucker for the U.S. Army.

One peculiarity for this movie is that there were apparently two versions cut, one shorter for U.S. release and the other a longer one released overseas. There were a few good scenes cut from the shorter version, and I think the ending was changed.

Thanks for that info Dan. I’ll look for a copy of the book. Cheers mate.

The book was written before the film Bernie Lay and Sy Bartlett were both 8th AF Vets.

The passage in the book that describes the last mission is almost word for word what Bernie Lay wrote about his co-pilot’s eye view of the Schweifurt run in 43 while flying in “Picadilly Lilly” of the 100th Bomb Group. General Savage is based on General Frank Armstrong, who rejuvinated the 306th BG that had a similar problem to the fictional 918th. It was considered that the book was Lay’s tribute to Armstrong in some respects

Dan

Dan, no I have not read the book, but I will certainly keep an eye out for it now, thanks. Was the book written before the film? And is it written by a real veteran? Who is the author?

Jules, no I have not yet seen The War Lover either. I will have to try and track a copy down. Cheers.

So it seems at least the opening was indeed Alabama. I’d dount Mr Freeman has it worng – he is to the 8th Air Force what our Mark12 is to Spitfires.
I just put on Roger Freeman’s tape again – he definately states – and I quote “In the opening scene, the former adjutant of a bomber station returns to his wartime haunts. The airfield now deserted and returned to agriculture. This moving opening was actually shot in Alabama, not England, but with remarkable foresight Hollywood was pre-empting history. For in years to come, in ever-increasing numbers the survivors of that air war would return, to view crumbling buildings, pace weedy runways, to reminisce and, perhaps, shed a tear. For an airman cannot return to battlefields in the sky, and the old airfield base becomes the focal point…….”

The opening sequence of this film was, and is still is, a brilliant piece of work.
I first watched this film in 1966 as a 12 year old schoolboy. living near an old wartime airfield as I did, I began to see our one in a different light.
I always thought that scene, where Dean Jagger rode to his old base, and stood on one of the old dispersals was filmed here in the UK, you live and learn eh? 🙂

12 o’clock high

Dave ,
Have you seen War Lover with Steve McQueen. A good war movie but not ub the same class as 12 o’clock high

Incidentally in Roger A. Freeman’s excellent video Over Here he says the opening shot where the veteran returns to the runway was shot in the USA. I assume the whole film was made on a US base then? Or was some of it made in the UK?

Many years ago I read an excellent series of articles on the making of 12 O’clock High in the American Aviation Historical Journal. As I recall all the flying and airfield filming occurred in Alabama. The B17s where from various units of the USAF still operating the type, although some had been brought out of storage.

Chris[/QUOTE]

Actually the filming was done in Florida at Eglin Field (now AFB). The planes used were drone controllers and drones….plus I wouldn’t be too surprised if a SB-17 rescue ship weren’t in there at least in the long shots.
Egiln is the site of target ranges and test facilities where AAM were/are tested over the Gulf of Mexico, so the colocation of the drones and the base certainly makes sense.

I don’t know where the opening/closing shots were filmed, but back then Hollwood didn’t travel much.

I’m with you Dave – heartily sick of seeing P47 .50cals and a V1 exploding for the 500th time 😎

Wondering if you’ve read the book “12 O’Clock High”? I’ve always had a harder time enjoying the movie since I read the book as they changed some things in terms of characters or lack thereof.

If you read it, it will definately give you a reason to look at the film again from that perspective. Savage in particular is more complex in the book. The Doc is a completely different slant too from the film.

Dan

12 O’Clock High

Incidentally in Roger A. Freeman’s excellent video Over Here he says the opening shot where the veteran returns to the runway was shot in the USA. I assume the whole film was made on a US base then? Or was some of it made in the UK?[/QUOTE]

Many years ago I read an excellent series of articles on the making of 12 O’clock High in the American Aviation Historical Journal. As I recall all the flying and airfield filming occurred in Alabama. The B17s where from various units of the USAF still operating the type, although some had been brought out of storage.

Chris

Sorry Steve, I have been trained to study and disect films. Sometimes it can be a pain I guess.

Sure, it is just a movie, and a very, very good one. I’m not knocking it. I just thought it really odd, especially because when it was released hundreds of thousands of veterans would have gone “Hey, that’s one of ours shooting at them”. I doubt they’d have fooled too many people when it was released. Has no-one else here picked up on this? I’d heard so much good feedback about the film and I have to agree, it is brilliant.

I loved the film, and Command Decision too. I just want to know if there are any more like it.

Incidentally in Roger A. Freeman’s excellent video Over Here he says the opening shot where the veteran returns to the runway was shot in the USA. I assume the whole film was made on a US base then? Or was some of it made in the UK?

…The only thing that I think Twelve O’Clock High falls down badly on is in the final big combat scene you constantly see P47’s and Spitfires attacking the B17’s. I don’t think they are meant to be protecting the bombers, they are actually meant to be Germans attacking the planes the way the film is cut. It’s a shame they were not more careful with the editing – surely they’d have had enough real footage to use proper ME’s and FW’s as they call them…

Dave, you’ve got to learn to relax son. It’s just a movie…

Twelve O’Clock High is the definitive USAAF bomber movie (ie drama) of the war. Sit back, enjoy, and relax, while being content that it’s better than anything Hollywood could come up with today. The acting is wonderful, the airplanes authentic, and the settings are real. What more could you ask for?