Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

Just to say, I am still reading this thread and am grateful for all the contributions.

Any more?

Moggy

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

Well, as always I´m a litle bit late catching up here!!!!
In case anyone is still interested in this tread, I will have a go.

I can remember two instances of two in a fighter. The first one involves none other than the legendary R.A. “Bob” Hoover when he was based in North Africa as a ferry pilot in 1943. He and a fellow pilot were ferrying P40´s from an assembly depot to the frontline, when one of them had to (can´t remember which) make a belly landing in the desert because of engine failure. As they were flying without radio, and the one still flying was not sure he could find the spot again to bring in some rescue personel, he decided to land to pick up his crashed friend. All went reasonably well, and they were able to get back to base ok. This story is in the biography of Bob Hoover “Forevere Flying”
The other story involves a fellow icelander, Þorsteinn “Tony” Jonsson who was an RAF fighter pilot during the war (the only icelander to serve with the RAF). After a “rest” at 12. EFTS he was posted to 65 squadron at Debden to fly Spitfire Mk.9 at the begining of 1944. He had been on the squadron for only a few days when the squadron converted to the Mustang Mk.4. For some reason one Spit was left on the Squadron after ATA had flown all the others away and the pilots were given permission to us it if they felt like it. Tony´s brother was in the merchant navy and had been given a leave when his ship called in Liverpool, and Tony invided him to stay with him at Debden. For some reason Tony´s brother had big problems getting down there, so there was only one thing to do. Take the Spit up to Liverpool and get him!!! The conditions on the flight down to Debden were described as “cramped” with Tony sitting on top of his brother, the parachute having been left at Liverpool for collection on return. After a few days at Debden, Tony´s brother was returned in style to his ship as a passenger of a Spitfire.
This comes from the Autobiography of Þorsteinn “Tony” Jonsson published in Iceland with the name Dansad i haloftunum. It has also been published in English, as I´ve seen it for sale at Hendon, but I can not remember the English name for it.

Regards,
Galdri

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

I read about it happening in the North African Desert. A spit pilot rescuing another. The chap on the seat operating the pedals and the guy on his lap the stick.

I read abt this in Jonnie Johnsons – the Story of Air Fighting.

Wasn’t it in WW1 where a guy rescued another fellow by making him lie across the lower wing of hi Bi-plane – was there any such incident ?

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

1) i know my grandad somehow got under a spitfires seat for a “lift” and was transported “home” to his evacuated wife in oxfordshire at the end of the war (i think he was then at middle wallop)

2) don’t worry about the webmaster abering he hardly ever turns up her – the ocasional (once in a blue moon) onafm or genrel discussion

rabie :9

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

I remember reading in the old RAF Flying Review, the great-grandfather of all the Key magazines (which really reveals what an old fart I am 🙂 ), an account by D. H. Clarke about doing a landing in North Africa in a Kittyhawk to pick up a squadron mate who had been taken down by ground fire while strafing an airfield.

On the Eastern front the habit of landing to pick up comrades was nearly routine amongst the Russians, but then much of the Ukraine was really just an enormous single landing field occasionally disrupted by villages. Occasionally, Yak pilots would remove a fuselage hatch cover and squeeze the rescued pilot into the fuselage open space instead of squeezing into the cabin. During the Finnish war there was an incident when the pick-up aircraft was a ski-equipped I-15bis, and the rescued pilot was flown back hanging onto one of the landing gear legs. Russian memoirs also recount a number of occasions when the “rescuing” aircraft crashed or got stuck in a rut, resulting in both crews being in the soup.

The Hurricane would seem a reasonable bet for doing such a rescue. But trying it in a Spitfire with that narrow undercarriage would seem liek a fool’s errand indeed. The Messerschmitt, with its narrow undercarriage and also its side-hinging cockpit cover would seem an even more unpromising choice, which may explain why I’ve encountered no accounts of the Germans trying it.

Georgii

If you want information send a spy. If you want good information send a modeler.

RE: Two in a fighter — yes, it did happen!!

I heard the same regarding a Mustang. 🙂

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

Yes it did happen on a number of occasions, but the Germans managed at least 3 in a fighter on occasions during retreats in the face of advancing allied armies. By removing the radio equipment a 109 could accomodate 2 ground crew crammed into the rear fuselage..!!!

Really late response … but Yes, it did happen in the ME!!

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-07-02 AT 05:00 AM (GMT)]Moggy:

Not sure if you’re still interested in this, but I happen to be back at home base in India for a couple of weeks, and was rooting around among my ancient collection of aviation mags … and lo and behold, what should I turn up but an article describing the Middle-East incident I vaguely recalled!

The article is titled “One Up, Two to Go”, by AVM Tony Dudgeon, and occurs in the July 1997 issue of … er … am I allowed to mention it, on this Forum … Aeroplane Monthly. (Quick, duck, before the moderator catches this!!)

The pilot involved was Sqn Ldr Derek Ward, CO of 74 Squadron, and the aircraft was a Hurricane. The incident took place in 1942 during a flight between Amman and Gamil (near Port Said). It wasn’t a combat rescue but an unauthorised ferry flight, apparently to attend one of Glubb Pasha’s legendary parties without needing to take the extra two days’ leave to drive there and back. Unfortunately the aircraft came down somewhere in the Sinai. Sqn Ldr Ward and his passenger were rescued by a Percival Proctor, but there was a sad sequel: the rescue resulted in a notification to HQ ME regarding the unauthorised passenger, and a Court Martial for Sqn Ldr Ward. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your point of view, Sqn Ldr Ward escaped the Court Martial by the expedient of being killed in action in the Western Desert.

AVM Dudgeon says whatever needs to be said, in the article, about the conflict between the light-hearted approach of operational pilots, and the heavier view of HQs everywhere, so I won’t repeat it.

If you’re interested I’m sure you can find a copy of the article; but just in case you have difficulty let me know, and I’m happy to get a copy across to you. Regards,

Snoopy

RE: Two in a fighter — yes, it did happen!!

I heard about a classic story how a Mustang picked up his downed skipper, chucked his seat out and flew home, chased by German Yokels – as far as I know it was a true story I’ll see if I can find it

RE: Two in a fighter — yes, it did happen!!

Moggy:

Apart from (at least) the one incident in Europe, recounted in Al Deere’s “Nine Lives” (thanks, Kev), I think it happened at least once in the Middle East. I seem to recall reading about the ME incident, not in a book, but in a magazine — either FlyPast or, just possibly, (dare one mention it, on this Forum, Mr Ellis?) Aeroplane.

I will try and locate the article, and post the date, if you’re interested. Regards,

Snoopy

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

I heard of this happening in Scotland but only because it was a remote area and would have taken days to rescue by which point the pilot would have died due to exposure.

Also I always have to chuckle a little when listening to the story of the Spit pilot who after getting a heinkel 111 to force land decided to land beside the aircraft and capture it before the crew could set fire to it. On landing he misjudged it and hit a rut sending him belly up. All he could do was dangle there while the Germans set fire to their aircraft who then came to his rescue righting the Spit and dragged him out. He then captured all the crew who sat conversing with him in English with cigarettes until the police arrived.

Regards Merlin

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

The incident during the Battle of France is recounted in great detail in Nine Lives by Al Deere.

Hope this helps

kev35

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

The one incident I remember from the Battle of France, was a Spitfire and a Magister. Pilot force landed, another pilot took the station hack and picked him up I believe

Tony

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

I’ve heard of it happening with a Mustang. Can’t remember the story though!!

RE: Two in a fighter. Did it ever happen?

fraid I cant quote from a book but yes this did happen on more than one occasion in spitfires typhoons( i think) and mustangs- also happenned with mustangs in korea if i remember rightly.

coanda