Two Spitfire's(I think) sent to escort a German Nightfighter to captivity

I may be wrong, but I am sure that the JU88 was detected on radar before the Spits got scrambled from Dyce. There was a chain home network up here too.

There were other fighter aerodromes in the area where the JU88 is more likely to have crossed the coast, or at least got near it, and they were Crimond (beside Fraserburgh) and RAF Longside (Peterhead). I’m pretty much convinced that Longside had a Czech fighter sqn at one time, whether at this time, I do not know, as I have not checked up yet. I’ve flown the route many times from the direction the JU88 would have flown, as I work on the rigs, and Dyce was by far not the nearest airfield from Norway.

Probably the Germans headed for Dyce as it was close to the nearest city….

Just playing devils adovcate, there’s no real proof from what I know of the story that it was a deception that the Brits knew about until the thing flew into the NE of Scotland…

[QUOTE] Now

In one of the most mysterious event’s of the war, a Junker’s Ju-88-1 flew from Christianland in Norway to Aberdeen in Scotland-and was escorted in by RAF Spifire’s. The Crew defected and the pilot, Heinrich Schmitt, is widely believed to have been a British agent.

An odd form of clandestine operation gave the RAF a present of the Radar itself. A lufftwaffe Junkers Ju 88R-1 nightfighter crew defected, and flew to Dyce(now Aberdeen airport), What make’s it clandestine is that RAF Supermarine Spitfire’s were alerted to go out and not shoot the Ju 88 down but to escort it in.

One day the full story may be told of what was obviously a preplanned operation.

Comment’s please!

would make one ‘ell of a film…now all we need is a flyable JU88…. and Tom Cruise!!

Seriously though thanks for the update 262 ..Fascinating !!!

[QUOTE=Tony Kearns..but then was the repatriation and or preferential treatment given to Allied combatants and where poss their aircraft officially and completely recorded ?

Yes everything was recorded.

Do the records go to the extent of who ate what with whom?

Are you being facetious?

Facetious ???

sorry for being soo cheeky !!!!

simply asking a question as someone who doesnt know the extent or accuracy of the records that were kept …or isnt that allowed ? :confused:

Cheers Ian. Is the book any good, and accurate re events?

According to ‘War Prizes’ Junkers Ju 88R-1 WNr 360043 coded D5+EV of IV/NJG3 was flown from Kristiansand/Kjevik in Norway to RAF Dyce, & was later allocated the s/n PJ876. It made 83 flights totalling 66 hours 55 minutes whilst with the RAE.

Geoff.

Geoff,

It is an interesting read, but very dated. At the time it was written, a lot of the official records on intelligence work had not been released, so I wouldn’t take everything in it as gospel.

As regards the crew and the flight, it is my understanding that the pilot was not a British agent but merely a social democrat and politically opposed to the Nazis. I do not believe that the aircraft was expected in Britain – one of the pilots has gone on record that he was scrambled to intercept a hostile and he almost shot it down. The aircraft had already been fired on by ground defences near Aberdeen, so I think the evidence that everything was pre-arranged by British intelligence and the pilot was working for them is flimsy and is based on out-dated and incorrect information.

That’s the one Dyce

Thank’s all

Now I found it again under Clandestine Operation’s WW2, in The Illustrated Enc of Aircraft.

Now this is around June or July 1943, they don’t give an exact date, but at this time the Boffin’s were desperately after info on the German Nightfighter’s Radar’s wavelength and signal form.
And around 6 month’s before the Ju-88 arrived had a Vickers Wellington , on the night of 3rd December 1942, on the first-ever very brave ‘ferret’ mission, go looking for a German nightfighter, It succeeded very well in this, and got shot to piece’s, with four of the crew seriously injured, but gathered full detail’s of the radar.

Now

In one of the most mysterious event’s of the war, a Junker’s Ju-88-1 flew from Christianland in Norway to Aberdeen in Scotland-and was escorted in by RAF Spifire’s. The Crew defected and the pilot, Heinrich Schmitt, is widely believed to have been a British agent.

An odd form of clandestine operation gave the RAF a present of the Radar itself. A lufftwaffe Junkers Ju 88R-1 nightfighter crew defected, and flew to Dyce(now Aberdeen airport), What make’s it clandestine is that RAF Supermarine Spitfire’s were alerted to go out and not shoot the Ju 88 down but to escort it in.

One day the full story may be told of what was obviously a preplanned operation.

Comment’s please!

[[I]QUOTE=Hurrifan]Very possibly[/I]
Very possibly what?

..but then was the repatriation and or preferential treatment given to Allied combatants and where poss their aircraft officially and completely recorded ?

Yes everything was recorded.

Do the records go to the extent of who ate what with whom?

Are you being facetious?

[I]Churchill didnt seem to know much about it

If Churchill did not know then his people were not telling him. I suggest that you consult DO and PREM Files at the N/A Kew

Apologies to all for going off thread.
Tony K

Geoff,

This would be The Great Coup by Robert Hill and first published by Arlington Books in 1977. If you are still keen to obtain a copy, it should be available on abebooks.co.uk

I’ve just checked and there are 15 copies listed, from £27.60 for a first edition to 53p for a paperback.

Cheers Ian. Is the book any good, and accurate re events?

According to ‘War Prizes’ Junkers Ju 88R-1 WNr 360043 coded D5+EV of IV/NJG3 was flown from Kristiansand/Kjevik in Norway to RAF Dyce, & was later allocated the s/n PJ876. It made 83 flights totalling 66 hours 55 minutes whilst with the RAE.

Geoff.

The “demand” and reply that the Luftwaffe crew be interned incident is recorded in the Daily Report Journal (DRJ) of the Fighter Squadron which had just moved from Rineanna (Shannon Airport). There is no mention of breakfast together. I do prefer not to rely on anecdotes which can often be embellished with the onset of time
Tony K>

Very possibly…but then was the repatriation and or preferential treatment given to Allied combatants and where poss their aircraft officially and completely recorded ? Do the records go to the extent of who ate what with whom?

Churchill didnt seem to know much about it !! 😀

mind you it is perfectly possible that this was just a way to make good story even better !!

Many thanks indeed for the source.I’ve been wondering for ages where that account was. Apart from “The Great Coup” little is said about the comings and goings during the early part of the war although there are scores of anecdotal accounts.
What raised my eyebrows on the inital stories of the Ju 88 coming in from Norway (thanks for the correction WL747) was the so called testimony of the Canadian Spitfire pilots. It was claimed that they knew the aircraft was surrendering because of a “white scarf being waved out of a cockpit window of the Ju 88”. Now that does sound like a fairy story.

Apologies 25deg south. more than a typo, wrong magazine (it’s an age thing really) It should read Air International December 1975.
Should be standing in the corner as you read this.
Tony K

Thanks Tony I’ll haul it out after tea- another age thing !

Apologies 25deg south. more than a typo, wrong magazine (it’s an age thing really) It should read Air International December 1975.
Should be standing in the corner as you read this.
Tony K

Incidentally the Ju88 Dyce incident was referred to in an article by Capt. Eric Brown in Aeroplane Monthly of December 1975.

Tony K>

Tony could you check for a typo ? I can’t find it in that issue.Page No?

Swimming at Gormanstown in May….birrrrrr!!!

Interesting as i remember it the story told by the participant was that he had been an officer based at Gormantown and had been responsable for the German crew when the Sterling landed…

Another more senior officer ordered him to stop the crews sharing breakfast!

Maybe time changes memories !

The “demand” and reply that the Luftwaffe crew be interned incident is recorded in the Daily Report Journal (DRJ) of the Fighter Squadron which had just moved from Rineanna (Shannon Airport). There is no mention of breakfast together. I do prefer not to rely on anecdotes which can often be embellished with the onset of time.
Incidentally the Ju88 Dyce incident was referred to in an article by Capt. Eric Brown in Aeroplane Monthly of December 1975.

Sorry if the water was too cold for you to swim in May, we always did when we were young
Tony K>

I remember seeing a paperback book about this incident in a bookshop some 2o years ago. I’ve always regreted not buying it. Sadly I can’t recall the title or author.

Geoff.

Geoff,

This would be The Great Coup by Robert Hill and first published by Arlington Books in 1977. If you are still keen to obtain a copy, it should be available on abebooks.co.uk

I’ve just checked and there are 15 copies listed, from £27.60 for a first edition to 53p for a paperback.

And poor ole Gaybo cant take a rest !!!

The lost and low on fuel Stirling arrived on 21 May and depareted two days later. Breakfast together? I wouldn’t think so. apparently one of the Stirling crew (Two RAF, one Canadian and one US 2nd Lt ) protested (you guess which one) at the freedom of the Germans at Gormanston and demanded that they be locked up. It is reported that one of the German NCOs mentioned in passing that they had planned to fly to Germanston what was their excuse for being there! With that they continued on their way to the beach for a swim.
Tony K

Swimming at Gormanstown in May….birrrrrr!!!

Interesting as i remember it the story told by the participant was that he had been an officer based at Gormantown and had been responsable for the German crew when the Sterling landed…

Another more senior officer ordered him to stop the crews sharing breakfast!

Maybe time changes memories !

As far as I am aware, the JU88 was from Norway, although I may be wrong. Certainly it was escorted into Dyce… I’ve lived around Dyce all my life, and not much is left of the old wartime airfield apart from a few buildings close to Bristows Heliport and a couple of reclad T2 hangers.

Scotty

The lost and low on fuel Stirling arrived on 21 May and depareted two days later. Breakfast together? I wouldn’t think so. apparently one of the Stirling crew (Two RAF, one Canadian and one US 2nd Lt ) protested (you guess which one) at the freedom of the Germans at Gormanston and demanded that they be locked up. It is reported that one of the German NCOs mentioned in passing that they had planned to fly to Germanston what was their excuse for being there! With that they continued on their way to the beach for a swim.
Tony K

How about Capt. Eric Brown flying the Ju88G-6 werk nr.621642 from Gormanston, Ireland, after the crew flew it from Denmark 3 days before VE Day? He mentioned that while on route to Farnborough he was met and escorted by three Spitfire off Valley.
Tony K

Was this the Ju mentioned in a RTE radio programme a couple of weeks ago?

Apparently it was followed a few days later by a Stirling…..the two crews ended up having breakfast!

How about Capt. Eric Brown flying the Ju88G-6 werk nr.621642 from Gormanston, Ireland, after the crew flew it from Denmark 3 days before VE Day? He mentioned that while on route to Farnborough he was met and escorted by three Spitfire off Valley.
Tony K

I remember seeing a paperback book about this incident in a bookshop some 2o years ago. I’ve always regreted not buying it. Sadly I can’t recall the title or author.

Geoff.