Typhoon, Thunderbolt canopy question.

On the subject of blown canopies, I believe in the UK, the largest single skin canopy was the DH Hornet one that was first made in 1944. This was roughly 7 feet long, 2 feet wide at its base, and roughly 2 feet tall! Clearly they had a few teathing troubles, because several early were reported to have ones shattered in flight.

…. see my AVATAR for a piccie.

Pedantic mode on.

Regarding Antoni’s extremely knowledgable post, Plexiglas(s?) was German. We used Perspex, made by ICI.

I have sat in a P47 and Sea Fury cockpits and they are a different width between the canopy rails,

My point exactly

It is a common misconception that the Malcolm hood of the P-51 was an adaptation of a (much smaller) Spitfire hood. They were different aircraft with different dimensions. The blown hood was merely inspired by that produced for the Spitfire.

RAF test records indicate that the engineering work for the blown Mustang hood was an NAA engineered design, not a British one, thus factory approved and “official”, and was carried out in the UK by North American Aviation engineers. The engineering required a lot of internal airframe modifications, and the stresses and aerodynamics were all considered. After a prototype was tested on a Mustang I, production was turned over to Malcolm Ltd. to refine it for production, and produce the kits.

The Malcolm hood was frameless, front and rear. This was deliberate, to insure that if it hit the fin when jettisoned, it would crack in half cleanly. The thick bead front and rear that many people mistake for a metal edge is just a thick bead of Plexiglas. The only metal is the bottom framework for the runners that attach to the external rails. Some Groups, the 357th notably, added a wind deflector, consisting of a metal strip, around the windshield arc, which rode over the canopy bead when it slid closed.

Malcolm hood fitted to P-47s are rare but not a myth. They did exist.

Zombie, 42-276594, QI.U of 361 FS 356 FG.
Turtle 509 FS 405 FG
Pengie, 42-75224, HV-O bar 61 FS 56 FG flown by ‘Mike’ Gładych.The first of five P-47s that bore the name Pengie.
Silver Lady, 42-26044 HV.Z, 61 FS 56 FG. Personal mount of Capt. Leslie Smith but frequently flown by Polish pilots. On 5th July 1944 Gładych shot down a BF 109 and on 12th August 1944 he claimed a Ju 88.

M.20 canopy

Was the Miles M.20 canopy completely clear? I have seen drawings (no guarantee!) which show a supporting frame running fore and aft along the top of the canopy. Anybody got good photos?

And come to think of it maybe the Typhoon is hailed as the first to enter service with the bubble canopy.

Incidentally, although the Typhoon is usually hailed as the first with a complete ‘bubble canopy, some critics would have you believe the Whirlwind or Fw190 was first – yet both of these had framework supporting the glazing.

I wonder if the Miles M20 was not the first? I believe it flew well before the Tiffie changed from the early car-door type canopy to the sliding bubble-proper.

Might as well join in this thread of the partially-sighted leading the partially-sighted! The Typhoon and Thunderbolt canopies differ considerably in dimensions and contours so I suspect the relationship between the two is that Republic borrowed the concept and the technology that was required.

The Typhoon canopy was of course used on the Tempest but also the Sea Fury and Firebrand. However the windscreen on the Sea Fury was different (smaller) – doubt to accomodate the changes to fuselage contour brought about by raising the cockpit to give the pilot a better view forward. Don’t know about the Firebrand windscreen.

Incidentally, although the Typhoon is usually hailed as the first with a complete ‘bubble canopy, some critics would have you believe the Whirlwind or Fw190 was first – yet both of these had framework supporting the glazing.

Thanks guys,

I could see the logic in the Malcolm hoods use but as i said i thought it was a bit odd that they shared the same canopy. Thanks for the input.

Ben

I have sat in a P47 and Sea Fury cockpits and they are a different width between the canopy rails, so I would say they are different canopies. (The sea fury and typhoon share the same windscreen “A-frame” assembly and basic canopy geometry.)

However, you just need to look at the two aircraft to see that whilst similar in shape, they are different – the P-47 being much wider IMO

Why would that matter ? Look at the cross section of a P-47. Note the canopy sits atop the fuselage creating a ‘double-bubble’ effect :rolleyes:

.

Hi

I’ve heard that the Hawker Typhoon and P47 Thunderbolt share the same basic (bubble) canopy. Now this seems a bit strange but knowing that the Malcolm hood was a British/US joint project used on several types i didn’t want to just dismiss the idea.
Have any of you heard of this, can you confirm or deny.

Thanks

Ben

I’ve heard this many times – usually that it was ‘trialed’ in the UK. However, you just need to look at the two aircraft to see that whilst similar in shape, they are different – the P-47 being much wider IMO

Found it – a P-47D-4-RA “used for training in England” P93 of Roger Freemans Documentary History of the Thunderbolt, same page shows one also with a “bubble” panel on the port side of a standard canopy. How many copy right laws do I break to scan and upload?

I’ve seen somewhere a “razorback” P-47 with a malcolm hood, 99% certain I’ve seen a photo if not colour artwork. It desn’t answer this but I thought I’d throw in my two’penneth. will start pulling books open now to see what I can find….

I had also heard that bubbletop P-47s used Typhoon-pattern canopies but would like to see it confirmed from a reliable source. It is plausible though, for the following reasons:

1) As you say, the USAAF was aware of the Malcolm hood for P-51s, while it is not really true to say this was a joint project – more a British design that was easily adopted by US units because of the ‘field mod’ kit that was produced by Malcolm co. Many US pilots preferred it and some considered the Malcolm-hood P-51s the best of all (the P-51C was slightly lighter than the D)

2) The bubbletop Typhoon and Spitfire XVI were around before the P-51D adopted this layout – IIRC a US test pilot flew both aircraft in an attempt to ascertain how rearward visibility could be improved on the Mustang, so the British use of bubble hoods can be clearly seen to influence US policy.

3) When trying something like this, the natural tendency is to use what’s already around and I imagine the Typhoon canopy was eminently suitable for use on the ‘Jug’.