I understand that the Hawker Typhoon had a few problems with regard to the tail detaching in flight, and that this problem caused about 24 fatal accidents. Apparently the problem was never entirely resolved. 🙁
Given current computer modelling and whatnot, would it be possible to now discover what the problem really was?
I know there were a number of suspicions, and that all of those suspicions may have contributed to the problem in one way or another, but even with all the modifications in place, the problem never went away entirely.
I know it would be purely academic now – but there are a number of reasons why it should perhaps be investigated further as much as possible : –
a) it is possible that someone might want to reconstruct one in the future. I know that might be an anathema to some, but eventually, if we want to see piston engined propeller driven aircraft representing “ancient” designs, new builds will have to be considered. And the Typhoon deserves a place in history as well as many others.
b) if we know what caused the problem, it can be avoided in future designs that might follow similar design and/or construction principles
c) more importantly some may say, the families of the Guys who lost their lives may find some answers.
By: RobAnt - 3rd June 2004 at 23:23
My query was based on said articles, and I was wondering if it would be possible to do a more in depth study now, with computer modelling, simulation, etc.
Certainly adjusting the elevator mass balance effected a partial cure, but even so there were similar accidents after ALL the mods had been put in place. According to AM.
By: Snapper - 3rd June 2004 at 22:11
Thats the kiddie. Sleeve-valves. They were wearing out really quickly. Good one, cheers Ant.
By: Ant.H - 3rd June 2004 at 21:46
Whilst it’s true the Sabre had problems with the valves,I don’t think it was the valve seats as the Sabre had sleeve-valves like a Bristol radial engine.It was apparently Bristol who used thier sleeve-valve expertise to cure the Sabre’s valve problems.As I said earlier,I don’t have the issue to hand,so can’t give any specific detail.Humbug! 🙁
By: Snapper - 3rd June 2004 at 21:39
Very true. Also, the Napier was not fully developed and would stop or burst into flames due to problems. Can’t remember exactly tonight, but I think it was valve seats or something. They were outsourced, and weren’t up to scrath – that particular problem was solved by niteiding them. There was, though, no truth in the excessive vibrations in Tiffies making pilots infertile!
By: Ant.H - 3rd June 2004 at 21:19
Yep,you’re right Denis.When the Tiffie first came into service there were a number of accidents where the aircraft were last seen spiralling lazily into the deck.It transpired that the pilots had been overcome by carbon monoxide exhaust fumes that had accumulated in the cockpit.It pretty quickly became standard practise for Typhoon pilots to put thier oxygen masks on even before start up,and they wouldn’t take them off again untill engine shut-down at the end of the mission.IIRC,there were still one or two cases where the pilots suffered carbon monoxide poisoning after their oxygen system failed or was put out of action.The Tiffie was a veritable flying gas chamber.
By: Denis - 3rd June 2004 at 21:03
As well as tail problems , was there also a problem with exhaust fumes in the cockpit that also caused early losses?, I seem to remember something about that.
probably wrong, usually am :rolleyes:
By: Snapper - 3rd June 2004 at 20:46
I’ll phone them up and get one sent.
Archer, thank you! You are a star – and I love the idea of VC10derness! That is wonderful, tank you. Looks like good stuff, so i’ll get one ordered.
Am grinning.
By: Flood - 3rd June 2004 at 19:57
It would be last months edition. All the newsagents are selling this months copy, now!
Flood.™
By: Papa Lima - 3rd June 2004 at 19:37
Since it was the latest (June) issue, can’t you just go to the local newsagent and buy a copy? Of course here in Sweden it’s impossible and I have to subscribe any worthwhile magazine or newspaper, but surely there are still newsagents in the UK that stock AM? No problem with copyright then, either!
By: Archer - 3rd June 2004 at 19:33
Snapper: I sent you an email with some images through your site.
By: Snapper - 3rd June 2004 at 19:12
Mark – who has should read, Mark – who has (as in has, having had it arrive and has been enjoying it immensely). I’m sure you can Ian, I’m sure you can. And much as I would love to see you jailed for copyright infringement, well, I gather that they don’t have broadband there.
By: EN830 - 3rd June 2004 at 16:54
I missed the article. Would anyone mind sending me a compressed scan to have a read of please? Cheers,
Mark – who has the new DD Video of the Typhoon and loves it. 4 pilots talking about it – 3 from 609 (Sir Joe Atkinson and Sir Ken Adam, and Rik Dupre). Absolute cracker of a video – a pity its not been done as a dvd.
If you can get hold of a copy, I can transfer it !!!!
By: Snapper - 3rd June 2004 at 14:02
I missed the article. Would anyone mind sending me a compressed scan to have a read of please? Cheers,
Mark – who has the new DD Video of the Typhoon and loves it. 4 pilots talking about it – 3 from 609 (Sir Joe Atkinson and Sir Ken Adam, and Rik Dupre). Absolute cracker of a video – a pity its not been done as a dvd.
By: EN830 - 3rd June 2004 at 13:34
Flood you’re going to upset Snapper by making disparaging remarks about his beloved Typhoon. 🙂
By: Ant.H - 3rd June 2004 at 13:34
The Database article in last month’s Aeroplane seems to suggest that the true cause was never found,despite various mods over the years.There was a time when they thought they’d cured it,but the accidents started happenning again after a time. Unfortunately,I don’t have the magazine to hand at the moment,so can’t quote from it directly.
By: DazDaMan - 3rd June 2004 at 13:32
I think it was A*roplane Monthly, and after reading about the Tiffy, I can see why some of you lot hold it in such high regard!!
By: Flood - 3rd June 2004 at 13:22
Forget which magazine it was that had this story in it recently (and can’t be bothered to search either) but I believe it said the last few deaths happened in machines which had been adapted/fixed and that Camm himself admitted he didn’t really know why they were still crashing.
Needless to say the Typhoon was phased out asap when it wasn’t required anymore…
Or am I wrong?;)
Flood.™
By: Snapper - 3rd June 2004 at 13:10
Elevator mass balance was the problem. It suffered from flutter which caused enough vibrations to rip the tail off in certain flying characteristics (like being up in the air).
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June 3, 2004 at 12:47 pm