U.S. Election – Do you Care?

Going back to the original thread question, I hoped for and am very glad that Obama won. And yes, I care passionately about American politics – so much more exciting than our own in my view.
I’m surprised at the number of comments that profess that the American electoral system is difficult to understand. It’s much more like ours than people might imagine. Think of each of the fifty states as constituencies and the electoral college as the House of Commons (winner takes all in each seat/state) and you can’t go far wrong.

Obama was elected on promises to change things in Washington for the better. No more entitlements, less spending, etc. Of course most politicians don’t keep promises, so I’m used to being at least somewhat disappointed with elected officials. The issue is that the current administration has done nothing to even attempt to rectify the problems we already have. They have also created new ones. Our spending has been through the roof, entitlements certainly have not decreased…etc. I will say that anyone who truly paid attention to a lot of what Obama said in 2008 shouldn’t be surprised that we are still in the mess we are in.

The issue is not Obama himself though…he is just one man. The issue is that this election as well as the one in 2008 represents a massive shift in priorities among many of the voters of this country. The Democratic left has become much farther left in recent years than it has ever been. We have become a culture that asks not what we can do for our country, but what our country can do for us. (To reverse President Kennedy’s well-known speech.) People have become very reliant on government handouts. Be it cell phones, welfare, etc., people are abusing these programs in record numbers. These programs are important because they help people get on their feet when they go through hard times. Yet people are simply using them as a way to skirt by without having to do anything. The idea is that “the government will take care of me.” Unfortunately money doesn’t fall from trees…it will run out at some point.

The American spirit that helped to get this nation to where it was at one point is slowly dying out. Successful people are now looked down on. If you have money, you are denigrated and viciously attacked for being an uncaring and otherwise selfish person. (I am by no means rich so I don’t have a vested interest in that statement. I’m just calling it like I see it.)

Personal responsibility is a thing of the past, and I fear that as the years go by and successive generations are raised in this “entitlement culture”, we will continue to head down a dark path.

If you think I’m wrong then that’s your right, but I live in this country. I have lived here my entire life so I’ve seen the changes that have taken place, especially in recent years. I’m still proud to live here, and I will continue to hope that things turn around. Nothing I can do now, but see how it all turns out.

The problem is not government hand outs per say.. many countries are successful where the government plays a strong hand in intervening in the economy. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Norway, Singapore.. and three of those four are still growing while the US is stagnating.

The problem is that the US has a unique issue where a certain group.. or groups I should say.. keeps exploiting Government assistance. Things that would work in Norway or Japan would not work in the US because of these certain groups.

its not PC but that’s the truth.

The issue is not Obama himself though…he is just one man. The issue is that this election as well as the one in 2008 represents a massive shift in priorities among many of the voters of this country. The Democratic left has become much farther left in recent years than it has ever been. We have become a culture that asks not what we can do for our country, but what our country can do for us. (To reverse President Kennedy’s well-known speech.) People have become very reliant on government handouts. Be it cell phones, welfare, etc., people are abusing these programs in record numbers. These programs are important because they help people get on their feet when they go through hard times. Yet people are simply using them as a way to skirt by without having to do anything. The idea is that “the government will take care of me.” Unfortunately money doesn’t fall from trees…it will run out at some point.

The American spirit that helped to get this nation to where it was at one point is slowly dying out. Successful people are now looked down on. If you have money, you are denigrated and viciously attacked for being an uncaring and otherwise selfish person. (I am by no means rich so I don’t have a vested interest in that statement. I’m just calling it like I see it.)

Personal responsibility is a thing of the past, and I fear that as the years go by and successive generations are raised in this “entitlement culture”, we will continue to head down a dark path.

I’ve bolded a sentence in your post which I don’t hear too often from people with right-wing economic / social sympathies. I’m glad to see such nuances. You seem significantly more informed on this issue than a number of other people arguing against Obama. 🙂

If your post holds enough truth, I’m sad to hear that so many people are giving welfare a bad name over there. I’m having a hard time separating between facts and non-factual right-wing bias on this topic (not referring to your posts), but it seems likely that the issue of welfare has been tarnished by people who don’t understand the basic mechanisms or seek to exploit the system without care for potential consequences.

A welfare state can truly be a good thing for many people when it works.

Now, a good deal of people on the American right like to uphold values such as hard work and personal responsibility.

I would say that the exact same values must apply in order for a welfare state to succeed.

The debate about U.S. domestic politics seems to be generally polarised, at least on the internet. I wish more people would show more interest in the middle road and the possibilities therein.

Yes, I agree, plus he has a nice little run around, “Airforce One”. 😉

I’m sure Obama would be happy to fly a chartered commercial if it wasn’t for the obvious security issues?

To add salt to the wound, there are just over 1,000 unelected, but appointed EU commissioners and other “officials” earning more than the UK and other EU members’ leaders. That’s just a small part of the travesty of democratic governance in Brussels for which we all pay a chunk of our taxes.

But, having said that, at the national level I disagree with your dismissal of every politician being out of touch with realities of life for those at the bottom of the pile.

Nice work Charlie, if you can get it. Now I understand why all, elected or otherwise, fail to understand how the poor of each of their respective Countries, have to live on a pittance.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Just to put it in perspective the EU President of the Commission, who is unelected earns £250,000 p.a. and the President of the Council, also unelected earns the highest salary of any “leasder” in the Western world – £320,000. They both , of course, have extensive expenses but effectively no decision making powers at all.

Yes, I agree, plus he has a nice little run around, “Airforce One”. 😉

Jim.
Lincoln .7

Well, in a way, but with respect, it’s a bit of an oversimplification. The US President gets $400,000 salary plus $50,000 expenses. That’s about £250,000 a paltry amount I would suggest for someone who ultimately has their finger “on the button”, and all that that responsibility brings. Most presidents could earn a great deal more by not being president so I am not sure that your accusation sticks.

As for how our Treasury deals with tax increases and reductions, well that is quite a different discussion.

No, Charlie, whoever won, In my mind, and this is just my opinion, they never seem to do a lot for the money, expenses, legal or otherwise, that they get.

Eg, When in a Budget, Petrol prices are raised, it’s by 6pm the same day, but if there is a reduction in, say your Income Tax Coding, it takes several months.If they give themselves a raise, or more for their pension pot, it also takes place immediately.Can you see where I am coming from?.
But that’s just my opinion.
Jim.
Lincoln .7s

Not sure I follow you..are you saying that it therefore doesn’t matter who won?

It seems to me, that Politicians here and over the Pond, look after number one, and sod those who voted them in, guess they are all made in the same mould.
Nothing really ever changes, does it?.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I could go on….

I concede – relief, in the sense that an Obama US will be a weakly led US so presents us with no problems. “Better the devil you know” was one of the apposite and represetative comments. So, yes, relief, but hardly support. The last thing many of the nations mentioned want is US president who might make life tough for them.

Your condescending comments and generally arrogant attitude have told me everything I need to know about you. I don’t wish to get into a heated argument with you on all of this, and hopefully you won’t be so hostile in the future. I’ll finish my thoughts on this thread below

Condescending and arrogant? I think you might need to point that bit out to me. You know nothing about me so don’t try and think you do. And you accuse me of being condescending?
I think the problem you had is that someone disagreed with you.

Republicans have to ask themselves is why they lost to an unpopular president in the midst of high unemployment and an economic downturn. I think they know the answer to that one but are unwilling to grab that particular nettle. If they don’t become more inclusive they will wither away.

It’s OK though, here in the UK the right wing are trying to blame the “entitlement” culture, not realizing that the true blame for this mess lies in our financial system. I guess we all need a scapegoat though.

Condescending and arrogant. Sheesh….

derekf,

Your condescending comments and generally arrogant attitude have told me everything I need to know about you. I don’t wish to get into a heated argument with you on all of this, and hopefully you won’t be so hostile in the future. I’ll finish my thoughts on this thread below:

First off let me say that your comment was partly wrong because you seem to place the blame squarely on those in power prior to 2008. The truth is that mistakes were made on both the left and the right, and as a result we are in the mess we are in today over on this side of the Atlantic.

Obama was elected on promises to change things in Washington for the better. No more entitlements, less spending, etc. Of course most politicians don’t keep promises, so I’m used to being at least somewhat disappointed with elected officials. The issue is that the current administration has done nothing to even attempt to rectify the problems we already have. They have also created new ones. Our spending has been through the roof, entitlements certainly have not decreased…etc. I will say that anyone who truly paid attention to a lot of what Obama said in 2008 shouldn’t be surprised that we are still in the mess we are in.

The issue is not Obama himself though…he is just one man. The issue is that this election as well as the one in 2008 represents a massive shift in priorities among many of the voters of this country. The Democratic left has become much farther left in recent years than it has ever been. We have become a culture that asks not what we can do for our country, but what our country can do for us. (To reverse President Kennedy’s well-known speech.) People have become very reliant on government handouts. Be it cell phones, welfare, etc., people are abusing these programs in record numbers. These programs are important because they help people get on their feet when they go through hard times. Yet people are simply using them as a way to skirt by without having to do anything. The idea is that “the government will take care of me.” Unfortunately money doesn’t fall from trees…it will run out at some point.

The American spirit that helped to get this nation to where it was at one point is slowly dying out. Successful people are now looked down on. If you have money, you are denigrated and viciously attacked for being an uncaring and otherwise selfish person. (I am by no means rich so I don’t have a vested interest in that statement. I’m just calling it like I see it.)

Personal responsibility is a thing of the past, and I fear that as the years go by and successive generations are raised in this “entitlement culture”, we will continue to head down a dark path.

If you think I’m wrong then that’s your right, but I live in this country. I have lived here my entire life so I’ve seen the changes that have taken place, especially in recent years. I’m still proud to live here, and I will continue to hope that things turn around. Nothing I can do now, but see how it all turns out.

Today is the first day of the Third Republic. The United States have decided against America. Do I care? Not really. But it’s a pity.

“A Republic – if you can keep it …”

are you Russian these days?

the days of states and republics are over. It’s the rise of city states again.
large places like New York and its surrounding metro, Shanghai, Pearl River Corridor in China, etc have more relevancy and power over everything than the rest of the inland areas anywhere

My apologies – you said “The last time…” implying this was the next time.

A very sweeping statement for which you will have little evidence, I would suggest. Iran will certainly be relieved, I grant you.

Not just Iran

Middle East Relief

European Relief

British Relief

Chinese Relief

Asian Relief

I could go on….

Didn’t Bill Clinton win two terms?

The last time I checked, Bill Clinton was 1 person. When I say “two consecutive presidents” – I thought I made it quite clear I meant 2 separate people?

the rest of the world is breathing a massive sigh of relief.

A very sweeping statement for which you will have little evidence, I would suggest. Iran will certainly be relieved, I grant you.

Normally I’d go on a rant about just how wrong this statement is, but based on comments I’ll just leave it at this. That statement is only partially correct…

So “how wrong” is it? Oh, just partially wrong. I wonder which bit is wrong?

The fact you aren’t going on a “rant” to “correct” “just how wrong” my statement is tells me all I need know.

The last time the US saw two consecutive democratic presidents was 1963 (and we all know the reasons behind that).

Didn’t Bill Clinton win two terms?

48% of the US may be disappointed but the rest of the world is breathing a massive sigh of relief.