Uk Fairey Battle and New Harvard arrives…(Zombie 2006)

re

Seeming as this has kicked up so much interest, is anyone interested in coming along to Bruntingthorpe once a week or so and helping out? As well as the Battle, there’s six other aircraft that need working on, and could really do with more hands down there as on most weekends there’s only 4/5. As well as getting hands on experience with WW2 aircraft that will be back in the air, it’s a good laugh as well

pm me, I’m more than interested

Fairey Battle.

Hi.

The last time I saw a Battle, wasn’t ‘a’ Battle, there were twelve of flying in perfect formation over Grimsby in 1942. I was twelve then and was hoping that the war would last so I could get in it! It was not to be, I was called up for National Service in the Royal Artillery, in 1948, the RAF had got it’s quota. Not to be out done, I was in the Royal Airforce three months after demob. I soon found out, in the Army you are a nobody and in the RAF you matter. I ended up as an electrical mech on 617 Squadron with the Avro Lincoln and then the Canberra. Happy days!

Ken

I think you have a valid point (or points) there. I have read reports by Halifax pilots who claimed that the Lancaster was a pig to fly by comparison and Lancaster pilots claiming the opposite whilst claiming that their regular aircraft was a joy to fly. I can’t imagine that any machine that size with unassisted controls would be a joy to fly under combat conditions.

Let’s call it a draw then shall we, I have heard reasonable appraisals of the Battle and you have found a damning quote.

Either way, I am pretty sure that neither of us has had first hand experience of flying a Battle and we are therefore both passing on second hand information. I suggest we wait until one is flying and then we can ask the pilot 🙂

Best regards,

Absolutely. In researching my book on the Skua I’ve found people who thought it was an awful aircraft, a rattly old deathtrap and really not good to fly at all and others who say it was beautiful to fly, stable in all aspects of flight and rather comfortable. I’m sure you get this with many aircraft of the era – some crews liked them, some didn’t. I’m sure both aircraft had plusses and minuses and in that era of handbuilt aircraft, quite possibly one airframe would be a dog and another a sweetie. Best of luck with your project.

Hi XN923 , i have the cockpit section of a battle , in this area there is no provision for any armour , the seat which i have two of has no provision for any armour plate , and also there is no provision for any bullitproof glass in the windscreen , the only metal behind the pilots head is the overturn truss frame .
I have had a look but the manual also does not make any comment on armour plate fitted anywhere in the airframe.

Perhaps this is a variation between marks? I was fairly sure there was armour fitted to at least some Battles. With no references to hand all I can think of is the part in ‘Fighter Pilot’ where the squadron leader of No.1 squadron is reported as having removed the seat armour from a crashed Battle to try in a Hurricane. There’s a new book out on the use of armour in RAF aircraft called ‘Knights of the Sky’ and I’m sure that would sort this out.

My initial post

Well, according to a number of the veterans who come to see the Battle we are restoring for the RAF Museum, they tell us that the Battle was a good solid aircraft which handled very well.

Response

‘And let’s face it – almost any bomber was better than the hideously ugly Fairey Battle which was neither good to fly nor nice for ops. It lumbered and wallowed behind its spinnerless, variable pitch airscrew incapable of reaching its designed top speed.’ – Squadron Leader D.H. Clarke DFC AFC.

XN923,

Let’s call it a draw then shall we, I have heard reasonable appraisals of the Battle and you have found a damning quote.

Either way, I am pretty sure that neither of us has had first hand experience of flying a Battle and we are therefore both passing on second hand information. I suggest we wait until one is flying and then we can ask the pilot 🙂

Best regards,

Battle armour

Hi XN923 , i have the cockpit section of a battle , in this area there is no provision for any armour , the seat which i have two of has no provision for any armour plate , and also there is no provision for any bullitproof glass in the windscreen , the only metal behind the pilots head is the overturn truss frame .
I have had a look but the manual also does not make any comment on armour plate fitted anywhere in the airframe.

cheers dave

Interesting comments chaps – sorry my web access is down and have only just been able to take a peek…

Simon – ROTFL

Jeepman, you are a very naughty boy. :p

RL – Imagine the owner may have something to say about offering an ‘open house’ :rolleyes:

There is LOT of work to do yet…

Anyways, always pleased to hear about any bits n bobs that may be lurking in people’s sheds!

TTFN

TT

Seeming as this has kicked up so much interest, is anyone interested in coming along to Bruntingthorpe once a week or so and helping out? As well as the Battle, there’s six other aircraft that need working on, and could really do with more hands down there as on most weekends there’s only 4/5. As well as getting hands on experience with WW2 aircraft that will be back in the air, it’s a good laugh as well

As for stripping out guns/armour etc as the battle did not have any armour plate fitted/or self sealing fuel tanks and was ony fitted with one foward firing 303 browning and one lewis gun for rear defense there would not be much weight to be gained by not fitting her out with wartime equipment.

Battles had armoured seat back for the pilot by the way, but James is right that leaving out certain bits of equipment may only throw the C/G out of whack and mean you have to add ballast. Incidentally this is one reason why armour wasn’t fitted to Hurricanes earlier, but when fitted with a VP prop C/G moved forward so fitting armour armour, and the removal of ballast, restored the C/G. Couldn’t be done with a Watts prop because the ballast was on the C/G (armour was behind) and would have needed corresponding weight further forward.

But the moral is you can’t go chucking everything out and expect a sweetly handling aircraft.

Amazing, never thought I’d see a Battle fly, perhaps I won’t, it seems a long term project to me.
Over the years, I’ve seen so much stuff take to the air that I thought I’d never see, this is just another case, good luck to all involved, I wish I was in a position to do more to help.
Wasn’t the Hawker Henley considered to be a more suitable light bomber at the time, having similar flight characteristics as a Hurricane, but ignored due to the fact that Hurricane production took precedent.

will Legends still be flying when it’s ready?

😀 😀

Adrian

…And one of those Battle gunnery trainers is preserved in very nice shape at the Canada Aviation Museum in Ottawa. It has not actually been on display for many years, but has always been stored indoors, and was recently moved to the new storage hangar, of which tours are periodically given. If I remember correctly CAvM’s Battle is R7384 but the “R” is not painted on, giving the appearance of a four-numeral RCAF serial.

S.

Exciting news about a flying Battle. WTG, Tomcat. Well, (don’t laugh too much) these flight sims are supposed to reproduce in some way an individual aircraft’s flying characteristics. The IL2, possessed of a similarly large wing area, just sort or ‘mushes’ out of the sky when stalled. It’s sort of saying to the pilot, ‘what on EARTH do you think you’re doing?’

I can imagine a Battle doing simlilar. A true British ‘Bus’.

Battle turrets

Hi Steve , some battles were fitted with turrets for training , but not for combat purposes , the bombaimers/radio op cockpits were flaired over and the turret fitted where the rear gunners cockpit was , they were used for gunnery training only.

cheers dave

Why on earth would anyone want to rebuild a plane and then cram it full of junk that would make it a pig to fly, and an expensive pig at that.

You may as well ask why anyone would restore a warbird to fly, or paint it in military colours, and certainly why anyone might restore a Battle…

It’s all a matter of degree. Today, there are a significant number of warbirds fitted out with all the ex military equipment – it’s just an element of a push towards authenticity and originality. There’s also the consideration that a number of types need to have the weight of armour in certain positions for C of G reasons.

As for stripping out guns/armour etc as the battle did not have any armour plate fitted/or self sealing fuel tanks and was ony fitted with one foward firing 303 browning and one lewis gun for rear defense there would not be much weight to be gained by not fitting her out with wartime equipment.

Err, weren’t a few Canadian Battles modified to take a Bristol turret?

Best wishes
Steve P

Most importantly, no-one will be shooting at you.

Good grief! You mean the war’s ended? 😮 You’d never guess reading some of the posts on here sometimes 😉

Interesting discussion that a Battle sans armour,guns and radio should perform better !
We are forgetting that it was designed as a light bomber and would quite often have a war load! What would be the point of not fitting her out as a fully equiped WWII Battle? Surely her performance would hardly matter if she was just to do airshow work?

Several reasons. Lighter aircraft will give you better economy, better performance, lower stalling speed, better handling etc etc….

Why on earth would anyone want to rebuild a plane and then cram it full of junk that would make it a pig to fly, and an expensive pig at that.

I’m curious to hear about what happened in 87 exactly…or is this a wind up?

Can’t wait until the day I see a Battle in the air, never thought it would happen…awesome prospect

wind up …or wind up

i think it was the former – or perhaps the latter – depending how you pronounce wind up

Something to definitely look forward to- I thought the ex Charles Church/ex Strathallan example, now forever static at Brussels, represented our last chance of seeing one flying under Merlin power. Shame the Fulmar isn’t still flying – now that would have been a twosome to remember.

I have to ask…………………………..

will Legends still be flying when it’s ready?

Coming back from Great Warbirds at West Malling with parents and caravan in tow !
Tends to stick in the mind somewhat!

I seem to recall that one evening in October 87 is got a little draughty, not that Michael Fish realised…..