Pak Observer
London—Chief of the Naval Staff Shahid Karimullah said on Monday that Britain has offered to sell three Tpye-23 ships to Pakistan. Britain showed its interest in selling the ships and “we have shown interest” in purchasing the same, Admiral Karimuall said after talks with his British counterpart Admiral First Sea Lord Sir Alan West. Pakistan’s High Commissioner to Britain Dr. Maleeha Lodhi also attended the talks.
“Now onward we are going to discuss the funding aspect, price aspect and once that is completed then a final decision could be taken,” Admiral Karimullah said.
The Chief of the Naval Staff arrived here Sunday on a 6-day official visit on the invitation of his British counterpart, who had visited Pakistan two years ago.
Replying to a question, he said the focus of his discussion with Sir Alan West was basically on “the training aspect because the maximum training acquired by Pakistan Navy is from the Royal Navy.”
“Pakistan Navy requires more surface ships and that is the reason why the Government has now concluded a contract with the Chinese for more ships,” he said.
Answering a question he said Pakistan’s role in the fight against terrorism had been internationally recognized and appreciated.
He said his visit to London would further cement friendship and understanding between Pakistan and Britain
The Admiral said two Pakistani ships would be participating in the UK celebration of Battle of Trafalgar, which he called “flag-showing diplomacy” of the Navy.—APP
By: Wanshan - 13th August 2005 at 17:57
Taking that model as reference point, what would be a good improved weapons fit for a possible Pakistani built future F22P “batch 2”?
How about RAM or SeaRAM front and rear, or Phalanx forward with RAM rear, or front 1x Mk41 (32 ESSM) with rear RAM/SeaRAM? Other possibilities would be using South African Umkhonto or a European missile like SeaWolf or MICA VL (which uses the same launch tube as Seawolf). Would Sylver VLU + Aster 15 forward be a possibility or too much for a 2400 ton ship? Replacement of twin 100mm gun with a (used?) UK 4,5″ gun or a modern Chinese single 100mm? Replacement of AK630 (by what?)?
Ideas/suggestions anyone?
By: Forestin - 13th August 2005 at 09:30
That “news” is now almost 2+ months old at least.
By: Arabella-Cox - 10th June 2005 at 19:29
Belgium, Chile and Pakistan are vying to acquire three UK Royal Navy (RN) Type 23 frigates being offered for sale overseas as a result of force reductions announced in 2004.
I couldn’t care who gets them – so long as it’s the highest bid!
By: Wanshan - 10th June 2005 at 18:20
Vl mica has reportedly performed quite well in recent tests against low flying targets. Unless RN demanded additional payment for the vls sea wolf or had plans to salvage that system a. (in which case mica would better choice since its far cheaper) Otherwise i dont see it being replaced by VL mica since there is little point in spending additional money to replace one shorad with another
AFAIK VL Mica uses the exact same launch canister as VL Sea Wolf. Suggests that the cost of replacing one with the other may be quite minimal (i.e. control station, software).
By: JonS - 3rd June 2005 at 23:19
Belgium, Chile and Pakistan are vying to acquire three UK Royal Navy (RN) Type 23 frigates being offered for sale overseas as a result of force reductions announced in 2004. All three nations are pursuing negotiations with the UK Ministry of Defence’s Disposals Services Agency (DSA), now part of the Defence Logistics Organisation, with a final decision on the ships’ sale expected within the next few months.
Chile has long been viewed as the most likely buyer for the Type 23s, having expressed a strong interest in acquiring all three ships being paid off by the RN and being first to the negotiating table. However, while the Chilean Navy has remained keen to pursue an acquisition, government delays in approving funding have seen Belgium and Pakistan enter the fray.
Informed sources have told JNI that the three putative deals all have competing merits according to their immediate sale value, the long-term value to UK industry and the ‘defence diplomacy’ benefit to the UK government. As a result, it is anticipated that a final decision on the sale will be taken at ministerial level.
By: swerve - 3rd June 2005 at 21:52
In late 2004, an ex-Royal Navy Type 22 named the Regele Ferdinand (F221)entered service. A second Type 22 was delivered in 2005, which is called the Regina Maria (F222).
King Ferdinand & Queen Maria. That whirring noise is coming from Ceausescus grave. :diablo:
By: JonS - 2nd June 2005 at 01:24
More Royal Navy frigates for Chile
More Royal Navy frigates for Chile
The strong international price of copper for the second year running has bolstered Chile’s coffers and a percentage of that additional income is earmarked for military equipment purchases including several Royal Navy frigates, German Leopard tanks and refurbished F-16 fighters.
Excess income from copper sales abroad represented last year an additional two billion US dollars for the Chilean government and for the military who are legally entitled to a percentage, almost 700 million US dollars in these last two years, although part of it has already been spent in cancelling debts.
President Ricardo Lagos and the commanders of the three services agreed this week that those funds will be used in the coming nine years (until 2014) to keep advancing with the modernization process of the Chilean Armed Forces.
The shopping list includes 20 to 28 refurbished F-16 fighter bombers belonging to the Dutch Air Force (with a twenty year horizon), which would replace the current Mirage fleet and act as support for the brand new ten F-16 already purchased directly from United States. Total cost is in the range of 150 million US dollars.
The Chilean Navy already has defined the purchase of three missile Type 23 frigates from the Royal Navy, an operation involving 250 million US dollars, according to Navy commander Admiral Mighe Vergara who would like to see the contract signed before June 18 when he retires.
Traditionally Britain has been the main supplier for the Chilean Navy.
Finally the Army is planning to incorporate a first batch of 100 Leopard II German made tanks selling at an average cost of 400,000 US dollars each in the European market. The Chilean Army currently has 280 Leopard I tanks.
However no final decision has yet been reached since the Dutch government has offered a full package which includes jet fighters, frigates and tanks.
By: Wanshan - 25th May 2005 at 23:21
No reason why they wouldn’t mount both a couple of AK630 and Phalanx
By: star49 - 25th May 2005 at 23:01
actually it will be fitted with phalanx, pakistan just ordered 6 more of them.
r u sure about this? they are more likely to be installed on current ships.
By: JonS - 25th May 2005 at 22:48
now this is interesting.
actually it will be fitted with phalanx, pakistan just ordered 6 more of them.
By: star49 - 25th May 2005 at 21:56
and the installation of Russian 630 CIWS to replace the 37mm gun fitted on 05H3.
now this is interesting.
By: Arshad - 24th May 2005 at 19:49
from pakdef
Pakistan and China agreed on F22P transfer
On April 4 2005, after more than four years of negotiations, China and Pakistan finalized the agreement of transferring F22P FFG production technology to the latter.
F22P will be armed with Z9C. Because of this, representatives from CATIC attended the signing ceremony. This is the first time for Pakistan to obtain Z9 serial anti-submarine helicopters. F22P will also be outfitted with HHQ7 ship-to-air missile (SAM), the first time for Pakistan to get such SAM system, too. The average price of one F22P excluding the weapon and electronic systems is approximately US$120 millions. It is not yet known so far what type of SSM F22P will be fitted with. Kanwa speculates that China is not likely to export YJ8-3 SSM to Pakistan. Pakistan has already possessed YJ8-2 SSM. Shortly before a source from Karachi said that F22P would still be fitted with YJ8-2.
This will be the most advanced FFG that China has so far exported to other countries. F22P originates from 053H3 FFG. Some modifications have been made on the export version FFG,including a stealthy design of the bridge, avoiding acute angles in the structure of the bridge, and the installation of Russian 630 CIWS to replace the 37mm gun fitted on 05H3. Karachi Shipyard will be contracted to build F22P. However, sources from the Chinese shipbuilding industry say that all the core parts will be from Shanghai Hudong Shipyard, and the latter will also provide technical guidance. F22P is the largest surface ship that Pakistan has ever built.
By: Tony Williams - 24th May 2005 at 05:48
Vl mica has reportedly performed quite well in recent tests against low flying targets.
There are low-flying targets, and then there are low-flying targets. Even the first version of Sea Wolf famously intercepted a 4.5 inch shell in flight. Anti-ship missiles are getting tougher and faster.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
By: JonS - 24th May 2005 at 05:14
The Romanian Navy had the original non-VLS Sea Wolf in the sextuple launchers – that was old fashioned. The VLS Sea Wolf in the T23s is a different matter, and has been kept up to date (ther is an update programme running at the moment). It was specifically designed as an anti-missile missile, rather than an adapted AAM, and I would need to see evidence that the Mica is as good in that role before I would believe it.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Vl mica has reportedly performed quite well in recent tests against low flying targets. Unless RN demanded additional payment for the vls sea wolf or had plans to salvage that system a. (in which case mica would better choice since its far cheaper) Otherwise i dont see it being replaced by VL mica since there is little point in spending additional money to replace one shorad with another
By: Tony Williams - 24th May 2005 at 05:01
Its a more modern missile, I have heard rumours that the malaysian navy is looking at an improved version of its leiku with VL mika instead of seawolf, and the romanian navy replaced sea wolf with mica.
The Romanian Navy had the original non-VLS Sea Wolf in the sextuple launchers – that was old fashioned. The VLS Sea Wolf in the T23s is a different matter, and has been kept up to date (ther is an update programme running at the moment). It was specifically designed as an anti-missile missile, rather than an adapted AAM, and I would need to see evidence that the Mica is as good in that role before I would believe it.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
By: sealordlawrence - 23rd May 2005 at 23:28
Its a more modern missile, I have heard rumours that the malaysian navy is looking at an improved version of its leiku with VL mika instead of seawolf, and the romanian navy replaced sea wolf with mica.
By: Wanshan - 23rd May 2005 at 22:44
HMS Boxer & HMS Brave where sunk by the Royal Navy in a Sink Ex, I know this link is old and is dated 2002 but they where sunk in the summer of 2004.
Man, what a waste. If there weren’t any buyers, why didn’t the RN donate them to some deserving Eastern European navy in the process of reform. I bet the Romanians would have loved an extra 2 Type 22 hulls. Perhaps Brazil would have had use for them too.
By: Wanshan - 23rd May 2005 at 22:41
What makes you think that VL Mica is any better than Sea Wolf?
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum
Wouldn’t necessarily have to be better. Equal would suffice. However, it would eliminate the need for 2 radar directors, which could then be replaced by, say, 2 Phalanx CIWS. On the whole, I’ld say the T23s could then handle more targets simultanously as well as have an new last ditch inner defence layer.
By: nickn - 23rd May 2005 at 20:34
HMS Boxer & HMS Brave where sunk by the Royal Navy in a Sink Ex, I know this link is old and is dated 2002 but they where sunk in the summer of 2004.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2165796.stm
where are the other Type 22s now? I know that 1 went to chile, 2 to romania and 4 to brazil, there are also four still in service with the RN, so where are the other 3? or have I miss counted?
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May 17, 2005 at 1:47 pm