Uknown Type Coded LV-105

Did you ask Charles Crawley and, if so, did you get an answer, Peter?

I am not convinced by the Croses theory,but I have not tracked down any photos of his earlier designs.
It certainly appears to be an HM210 based fuselage,I did put a link up previously including the Starck 210 (post 22),but of course it looks a little different with a radial engine.
The salmson engine would be logical for a french built a/c…it will be interesting to see if the pou club come up with more info 🙂

Looking at some of the photos the mystery Pou appears to me to be Salmson engined HM210 (Starck)?.

John

As is always the case AA, a subject like this is always going to throw up more questions than answers. I have an email address for Charles Crawley and will drop him a line with regards LV-IOS…

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Matthieu Barreau must be wondering why, all of a sudden, the Brits are getting in a frenzy over a Pou. I e-mailed him on Saturday and had basically the same reply from him this morning, but didn’t have the time to post it sooner. However there are still the issues that (1) the Argentinian CAA website does not appear to recognise LV-IOS as an issued registration mark and (2) non-one has ascertained what type was LV-IOS and/or the aeroplane in the photo. It is suggested that it is a Croses but there were quite a number of them and we don’t know what Bonacina’s widow is trying to sell. Perhaps a follow up e-mail to Matthieu or Charley, Peter?

Hot off my email:

Answer from Charley CRAWLEY, argentinian pouducielist

“surely LV-IOS. That front wing looks as a Croses wing. Quite a few were built and the only remaining examples are the ones that Bonacina´s widow is trying to sell”

So, it is a Mignet formula, not a “real” Mignet. Apparently a modified CROSES POUPLUME. There have been a CD of plans and photos published on this subject: http://www.pouguide.org/fr/communiquer-participer/Las-Pulgas-Argentinas

With my compliments,

Thibaut Cammermans

In an effort to get to the bottom of this, I’ve just sent an email to the webmaster of the Pouguide.org website. Rather than subject him to my grasp of French (not practised since the age of 12) or trust Bablefish (which has a habit of making me sound like the French policeman on Allo Allo) I just hope that he makes sense of my English 🙂

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Hi John
The fin/rudder looks (to me ) to be similar to the (later) HM210 but distorted by the camera/image and appears bigger than it is !
Definitely maybe

The engine appears to be a Salmson a type which was used by a number of Pou variants.
The rudder shape (with fin) is not Pou but certainly looks to have been “pre-owned”.

John

The HM.250 perhaps?

Yes you could be right AA,I am off to bed with a ‘flea’ in my ear 🙂
rgds baz

Ah, no. If you’re anywhere near the truth then it must be a Pouperkarpov!!!!!

You don’t think it’s actual TWO aircraft, one landed on top of another?

I vote a Piperkarpov….A Polikarpov Po 2 with a Piper Cub 😀

I have also seen a plan for an HM210 with 3 seat layout (2 front,1 rear)…but cannot find it now :rolleyes:

The HM.250 perhaps?

just to finish on this subject for the morning…
The HM210 was developed from the HM19,I have seen pics of HM19’s with radial engines…a la…

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=15&ved=0CCcQFjAEOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pouguide.org%2Ffr%2Fconnaitre%2Fancienne-publications%2F1958-aviation-magasine&ei=CMi6TLb6OM754gbMt7zNDg&usg=AFQjCNHUOEbADvC9-sSkBaeoIjkSZ2n9VA

I have also seen a plan for an HM210 with 3 seat layout (2 front,1 rear)…but cannot find it now :rolleyes:

Also as I alluded to previously…I think there are 2 types of HM210 Fin/Rudder…early a/c with no fin,but later a/c with fin/rudder similar to original post.

rgds baz

Really appreciate all the input on this one chaps… so thanks again to everybody here for their time and support 🙂

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Just a little light hearted aside/drift from LV-105 ! I have now looked at pics of many fleas…you certainly would not get me up in one 😀
I did however rediscover the ‘Tea Chest Flea’ 😀
Link to popular aviation.com photo

http://www.popularaviation.com/FlyingFlea/Display.asp?Photo=2553

also link to Ruskin Gallery photo

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CBgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.menagerietheatre.co.uk%2F1021%2Freach-for-the-skies%2F&ei=Bru6TPXgGtCe4Qami-jMDg&usg=AFQjCNErt3db8VuA8J813Pc-QOnpeXlbOw

http://www.menagerietheatre.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/flying-flea-in-ruskin-gallery2.jpg

:D:D:D

My opinion about the rudder/fin is that it is probably standard (later) HM210 but I think the image has some distortion which makes the empennage/rear fuselage look bigger than it really is …

If my French is correct the article about the Argentinian Mignet’s says that Mignet either built LV-X5 and LV-X6 or had them built in Argentina with the intention of setting up a factory there but the authorities dragged their heels over certification so he abandoned the idea and moved on to Brazil.

Having had another good look around the web LV-105 seems to have a lot of the features of the HM210. It has the turtledeck over the rear wing mount and the rudder shape looks pretty close although the rudder on LV-105 seems to have had a piece added to the trailing edge to increase the chord so it is most likely a HM210 possibly modified with tandem seating or the lump behind the pilot could just be something fixed to the rear bulkhead rather than a headrest for a tandem seat. If you look closely the pilot seems to be very close to the port side of the fuselage so there could just be another seat beside him.
Sorry still can’t help with the pilot’s inside leg measurement though!

I think it might be a Mignet HM 210 or 210 based,I have seen them described as a 2 or 3 seater…

From a 1938 Flight magazine…

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CEoQFjAN&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.flightglobal.com%2Fpdfarchive%2Fview%2F1938%2F1938%2520-%25203458.html&ei=TP65TI8gg-vgBsrblNUO&usg=AFQjCNFSptaoRCzqgRNzk5EJ10TalHFEjQ

The H.M.210 is very unlike these and
was one of the most workmanlike little
machines in the Show. It is a side-byside
cabin two-seater with the
lamiliar single-control layout—
in this case split into dual from a
central forked column. Lateral
movement operates the rudder,
and the fore and aft movement,
as before, tilts the main plane.
Additionally, however, there is
now a full-span elevator for the rear wing, and
this comes into use only at the extremes of the
fore and aft movement of the stick. M. Mignet
himself is still as optimistic as ever, and explained
this and another of its type had made
2,500 flights.

photo…

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CCsQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pouguide.org%2Ffr%2Fconnaitre%2Fhm-210&ei=TP65TI8gg-vgBsrblNUO&usg=AFQjCNH_2I1gXIV_ofcH_Sns5KSqI-2OUQ